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notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
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Aug 2001
time: 22:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:28
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Like what just happened? Is the media hunting down NCon candidates and grilling them? Is there some habitual need to self destruct built into people who supported the CA?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...ion2004&no_ads=
quote:
Conservative MP slips on party's hate law view
CTV.ca News Staff

The Conservative Party was buoyed by leader Stephen Harper's platform release Saturday, but comments by one of the party's MPs could be bringing it back down again.

In an interview with CTV News, Ottawa-area Conservative MP Cheryl Gallant said she thinks Canada's newly amended hate law -- which added "sexual orientation" to the list of groups protected from hate propaganda -- should be changed back.

"The danger in having sexual orientation just listed, that encompasses, for example, pedophiles," Gallant said.

"I believe that the caucus as a whole would like to see it repealed," she said.

The remark sent the Conservative Party swiftly into damage control mode. A party spokesperson said Gallant's comments were incorrect, and the Conservatives were not planning to move to repeal the act.

Conservative House leader John Reynolds told CTV's Question Period that Gallant was expressing her own beliefs, which she is free to do.

"During a campaign, candidates are going it make comments. These things happen," he said.

"Candidates will say things for whatever reason in their own riding. But it's not a major issue with our party."

Reynolds added that the party does not intend to seek to repeal the law.

"I'm the House leader and I've seen no line-up of letters in my office asking us to repeal that law. It's a bill that passed the House of Commons.

"She'll have every right to bring that up with a new caucus in Ottawa -- which will be greater in numbers. But it's certainly not something that is going to get us off an agenda."

This is not first controversial remark from Gallant. In April, 2002, Gallant was forced to apologize for a comment she made in the House of Commons, telling Foreign Affairs Minister Bill Graham to "Ask your boyfriend" about Mideast policy.

The remark was picked up by Commons microphones. After a firestorm of criticism, Gallant eventually released a statement saying the remark "was inappropriate."

The latest gaffe comes as the Conservatives face criticism, after certain MPs expressed contentious opinions on topics such as abortion, bilingualism, and the death penalty.

Last week, the party's health critic, Rob Merrifield, said in an interview with The Globe and Mail that mandatory counselling would be "valuable" for women considering aborting their pregnancies.

Harper was forced to reaffirm his party's position that a Conservative government would not introduce legislation to restrict access to abortion or hold a referendum on the issue. But he said he would not prevent a free vote on abortion if it arose in a private member's bill.

Later, Hamilton Mountain Conservative candidate Tom Jackson said he would like to see capital punishment return to Canada.

Again, Harper was forced to make the point that his government would not propose death penalty legislation.

Last month, Conservative Party Critic for Official Languages Scott Reid said bilingual services from coast to coast should be reconsidered. Reid also said he didn't think senior civil servants should have to be bilingual.

Harper defended the Conservative MP, saying he was just expressing a personal opinion. But he also had to assure voters that his party supports official bilingualism. Reid later resigned from his critic position.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:28 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Another one?

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/06/0...nconshate040606



1) Getting rid of bilingual service
2) Bringing back the death penalty
3) Abridging a woman's right to choose
4) Delisting sexual orientation as a protected form of minority under Canada's hate laws.

I'm sure a lot of people really want to see Harper's Canada now...

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Gee, I'll remember to use that same standard for Layton. Judge the leader by his candidates.


Jon has a point though. With the election this close, people are going to look harder at the leader AND his candidates.

The reason the NDP never tops 20% is that the wingnuts start to emerge and Canadians decide they don't want that.

Do you want the right to be the NDP of the 21st century?

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:31
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they should remove everything as a "protected minority" under hate laws. Hate laws

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:31 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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The Refoooooorrrrrmmmm party always had a lot of trouble with that, something which nobody's managed to fix yet, apparently.

Maybe it should be a message to Canadians that the Alliance wasn't quite right in the head and neither are the new Conservatives...

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:32
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Another one?

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/06/0...nconshate040606



1) Getting rid of bilingual service
2) Bringing back the death penalty
3) Abridging a woman's right to choose
4) Delisting sexual orientation as a protected form of minority under Canada's hate laws.

I'm sure a lot of people really want to see Harper's Canada now...


That's why I'm wondering if there are roving bands of reporters mimicking the mobs with torches and pitchforks roaming the land in search of vampires.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:33 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither Do you want the right to be the NDP of the 21st century?


It works for the NDP because there's already a strong centre-left party to keep an eye on things while they push for more radical social change.

The right would simply be ignored if it tried to move itself to that model...

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:36 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Kucinich
they should remove everything as a "protected minority" under hate laws. Hate laws


I'm actually with you on this one (I believe hate laws should be limited to outlawing incitement to violence against an identifiable minority). But attacking the right of a specific group (like homosexuals) to be protected tells me that there might be something more than simple regard for free speech at work, especially when a party already has an image problem with homophobia...

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
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Oct 2002
time: 21:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:36
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quote:

In an interview with CTV News, Ottawa-area Conservative MP Cheryl Gallant said she thinks Canada's newly amended hate law -- which added "sexual orientation" to the list of groups protected from hate propaganda -- should be changed back.


I see no problem with this point of view.

Just because something was just made law, does not make that law a fiat which cannot be changed.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:36
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As has been happening for 10 years.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:36 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither


That's why I'm wondering if there are roving bands of reporters mimicking the mobs with torches and pitchforks roaming the land in search of vampires.


Maybe the new Conservatives simply have a talent for attracting wackos...

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:37 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
As has been happening for 10 years.


Yup. So somebody might want to tell the Conservatives that they should be more careful in who they give their seal of approval to...

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
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Oct 2002
time: 21:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:38
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quote:

especially when a party already has an image problem with homophobia...


Crafted by the Liberals, and NDP, no doubt.

They have no image problems with the majority of Canadians.

I think Hate Crimes laws are stupid. Enforce the existing statutes against assault and battery, and you will not need hate crimes legislation.

We will be no worse to sweep this slate clean.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


I see no problem with this point of view.

Just because something was just made law, does not make that law a fiat which cannot be changed.


Good. A point of principle. However, going off on divisive issues during a campaign is also the welcome mat to the opposition benches. When will the former supporters of Reform/CA learn that?

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:39 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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You really can't blame reporters for smelling controversy and leaping on it. If these idiots don't want to cause the Conservatives serious harm they should learn to keep their mouths shut. The blame lies with them, not the media...

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
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Oct 2002
time: 21:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:40
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quote:

It works for the NDP because there's already a strong centre-left party to keep an eye on things while they push for more radical social change.

The right would simply be ignored if it tried to move itself to that model...


There are parties to the right of the Conservative party that could continue to play that role.

I see no reason why the system of Centre Left, Centre Right can't work on both sides of the spectrum.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
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Oct 2002
time: 21:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:42
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quote:

When will the former supporters of Reform/CA learn that?


Their duty is not to the party, but to their constituency.

If their constituency clamours to revise the laws, then their representative ought to serve them in this capacity.

I see no reason why this woman should apologise for serving her constituents over her loyalty to the party. Unlike the NDP and Liberals, people can disagree with abortion, and still remain a member of the Conservative party.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:43
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Yup. So somebody might want to tell the Conservatives that they should be more careful in who they give their seal of approval to...


It's a democracy. Isn't it wonderful?

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:43 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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You've obviously missed the point of this discussion. NYE was pointing out that the Conservatives are talking themselves into a corner where they will be the NDP of the right.

So if the Conservatives want to attack the centre they really need to understand the value of expressing the values of the centre instead of frightening the centre off with inflammatory talk...

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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May 2001
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  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:43 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither


It's a democracy. Isn't it wonderful?


It sure is. But the Conservatives really need to learn how to play the game...

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Their duty is not to the party, but to their constituency.

If their constituency clamours to revise the laws, then their representative ought to serve them in this capacity.

I see no reason why this woman should apologise for serving her constituents over her loyalty to the party. Unlike the NDP and Liberals, people can disagree with abortion, and still remain a member of the Conservative party.


Oh really? I dare say that any pol from around Ottawa who had to live or die on what that twit just said would most likely die. However, she is riding on the coat tails of a party, so she might well get elected again even though her views are more likely to belong in a museum rather than a government.

We don't have reponsible MPs yet. We have to get into to power to help move things that way. Duh!

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
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Oct 2002
time: 21:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:47
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quote:

they will be the NDP of the right.


Hardly. They are Centre-Right. The NDP of the right is the Christian Heritage Party.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:48
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse


It sure is. But the Conservatives really need to learn how to play the game...


As evidenced by Ben, some think we can be democratic and have a hope of changing the rules of the game.

Hense, Reform.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:49 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Reread NYE's comment and my own and then you will hopefully understand.

Oh, and the Christian Heritage party being the NDP of the right is a real joke given their poll numbers. The NDP is a solid 3rd party. Those jokers are fringe all the way.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
time: 22:36
  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Hardly. They are Centre-Right. The NDP of the right is the Christian Heritage Party.


notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:51
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Reread NYE's comment and my own and then you will hopefully understand.

Oh, and the Christian Heritage party being the NDP of the right is a real joke given their poll numbers. The NDP is a solid 3rd party. Those jokers are fringe all the way.


Actually, you might be surprised but what might happen if proportional representation ever makes it.

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May 2001
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  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:52 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither


As evidenced by Ben, some think we can be democratic and have a hope of changing the rules of the game.

Hense, Reform.


In other words, a party can hope to include people in its caucus that the majority of Canadians view as extremists and still manage to form a government? That wouldn't be democracy as far as I'm concerned. There's a reason the Liberals wouldn't take on Svend Robinson as a candidate. The Conservatives have tried to include the far right in their party. Why should a centrist vote for a party like that?

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
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Oct 2002
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  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:52
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quote:

I dare say that any pol from around Ottawa who had to live or die on what that twit just said would most likely die.


True. Diefenbaker lamented many of his election defeats in Saskatchewan over irregular statements made by MPs back east.

However, I would still contest the statement that the Conservative Party will die for opposing Svend's Bill, even in Ottawa. This is why Harper has not kicked that candidate out of the party. It's a reasonable position to take.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
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  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:54
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quote:

The Conservatives have tried to include the far right in their party. Why should a centrist vote for a party like that?


The Liberals have done the same with NDP candidates.

Why should a centrist vote for them?

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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  Old Post 07-06-2004 06:54 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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It won't die in the West. It sure as hell is going to pay a price in Ontario though.

 
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