11-06-2004 11:48									#121
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Just look at the results here. The Conservative policies are so extreme that they get very little support (0% from St Leo, 4% Krazyhorse, 7% - Joncha, 17% from me).

The NDP have a much more moderate position. You agree with half of the questioned policy. Even an extreme right-winger like Ben agrees with 42%.

	11-06-2004 12:33									#122
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Three communists are representative of the centre? You I can never figure, but I'd guess you buy into the scare somewhat, so...

	11-06-2004 12:38									#123
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Let's put some balls on the table, and see what is extreme, or not.

1. PRIVATE SECTOR ROLE IN HEALTH CARE DELIVERY:
Keep health care system 100% public
Open to provision of some services by private providers - Strongly agree.

I went that way because I think we need to reappraise what we are doing with healthcare rather than blindly shovelling untold billions into the status quo. My option was not represented, so I went with the option that indicated change.

2. NATIONAL HEALTH CARE FUNDING:
Support increase federal share of funding to pre-1995 levels - Somewhat agree
Do not support increase federal share of funding to pre-1995 levels

I do think the fed should spend a bit more on health, if it is spent wisely.

3. PERSONAL INCOME TAX:
Supports immediate cuts to personal income tax - Somewhat agree
Do not support immediate cuts to personal income tax

I like the reduction of taxes on the lower middle class. It might be better if they reduced the lowest bracket and that bracket a bit each though.

4. BUSINESS TAX:
Support cuts to business taxes - Somewhat agree
Do not support cuts to business taxes

Not sure how much can be cut while spending goes up at the same time. Encouraging jobs is good, but this could go if anything needed to give.

5. MARIJUANA:
Support decriminalization - Somewhat agree
Oppose decriminalization

The only problem I could see is if it caused complications for trade with the US.

6. MISSILE DEFENCE:
Support missile defence - Somewhat agree
Oppose missile defence

We are part of NORAD already. The shield would be protecting North America, not just the US (I would imagine). On the off chance someone with one or two long range missiles went nuts, and the thing worked, I don't see the harm in letting the US have a rocket site or two in Northern Canada. They already have the radar bases.

Also, in the aftermath of Chretien's follies, we have other issues to expend capital over with the Yanks, like lumber and other trade issues.

7. GAS TAX:
Immediately reduce federal gas taxes - Strongly agree
Maintain federal gas taxes

This should be a no-brainer. High gas prices are costing everyone, but the poor more than others proportionally, as the prices they pay for products is driven up by gas prices, and they are driven off the road and away from job prospects.

8. GUN REGISTRY:
Maintain current gun registry
Abolish current gun registry - Strongly agree

It's useless for crime prevention, unless someone can explain to me how knowing which farmers have which deer rifles and shot guns will have an impact on gun violence in the cities. The stated reasons do not match with reality. Buh-bye!

9. IRAQ:
Support U.S. policy on invading Iraq - Somewhat agree
Oppose U.S. policy on invading Iraq

I said I was for it to get rid of Saddam then, and I won't talk out of the other side of my mouth now, even though the Yanks appear poised to win some kind of self inflicted wounds award. *sigh*

10. NATIONAL UNITY:
Support working with separatists or former separatists
Oppose working with separatists or former separatists - Somewhat agree

I see the Bloc's position as problematic. No one could have them in a government, could they? However, if they wipe out the Liberals and others (effectively) how can the country be run without Quebec? Sacre bleu!

11. MILITARY SPENDING:
Increase spending on military equipment - Somewhat agree
Provide adequate funding for a peacekeeping role

As mentioned, this question is silly. We don't have funding sufficient to maintain what we are doing now. Obviously more has to be spent, within reason.

12. KYOTO:
Implement Kyoto Accord
Do not implement Kyoto - Somewhat agree

I am still waiting to hear how Canada can reduce our emissions while we have a growing population and we are one of a few countries with climates where burning fossil fuels is required to maintain life, literally.

13. SAME-SEX MARRIAGE:
Support new definition of marriage - Strongly agree
No change to the traditional definition of marriage

I don't think this needs another thread to be argued in.

14. ABORTION:
'Pro-choice'
'Pro-life' - Somewhat agree

I think things have gone too far. Very controversial, but I don't agree with abortions within weeks of a live birth. At some point, the critter is firing synapses and feeling. We wouldn't allow an animal to be treated with so little regard. Of course, this is as likely to come to a party vote anytime soon as would a proposal to endorse the Anti-Christ.

15. ELECTED SENATE:
Support elected senate - Strongly agree
Oppose elected senate

I looked for the 'Own Goal' response, but it wasn't there.

16. POST-SECONDARY TUITION FEES:
Support tuition fee cuts - Somewhat agree
Oppose tuition fee cuts

I think we should boost funding for uni's and colleges a bit, and look at more creative ways to allow students to pay down debt (like the taxation schemes proposed from time to time).

17. FIXED ELECTION DATES:
Support fixed election date
Oppose fixed election date - Somehat agree

I thought this was fine, except what heppens in the event of a non confidence motion passing? Could probably be cobbled together and made OK.

18. MORE NATIONAL HOLIDAYS:
Support new holiday
Oppose new holiday - Strongly agree

When did this become an issue? Anyway, we already get about 7% of the year off with pay. No crushing need for more.

19. TERRORISM:
Support citizenship
Oppose citizenship - Strongly agree

If the bum's rush is good enough for Zundel, it's good enough for Ma Khadr who wasn't supposed to want to come here to have her sons turned into fags anyway.

There you go. Very extremist, I am.

	11-06-2004 13:31									#124
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Did I say you were extremist. No.
I said Harper's policies are extremist.

Eliminating the middle income tax bracket at a cost f $16 billion in tax revenues. That's extreme. A more moderate position would be to reduce taxes somewhat.

Buying new tanks, helicopter carriers, fighter jets, destroyers and helicopters for the Forces. That's extreme. The Forces need to be better equipped, but we have to make sensible and fiscally responsible choices.

Creating a Minister of US Relations (Canadian ambassador to US) plus creating a Secretary of US/Can relations. Might need one, but both? That's extremely. And a cabinet minister for American relations, forget it.

Paying for a missile defence system that doesn't work and isn't needed. That's extreme.

	11-06-2004 16:15									#125
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Weird results

Layton - 100
Duceppe - 93
Harper - 57
Martin - 57

	11-06-2004 17:51									#126
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What the hell? The Conservatives are actually challenging the Liberals? What a world...

	11-06-2004 22:15									#127
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Dunno about these results myself:

Duceppe - 100 (what the.....?)
Layton - 80
Martin - 80
Harper - 60

Hmmm....Layton and Martin the same, huh?

The funny thing is, I don't think I differ too much from NYE on a question by question basis. I'll go over them like he did in a bit.

	11-06-2004 22:28									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai Did I say you were extremist. No. I said Harper's policies are extremist. Eliminating the middle income tax bracket at a cost f $16 billion in tax revenues. That's extreme. A more moderate position would be to reduce taxes somewhat. Buying new tanks, helicopter carriers, fighter jets, destroyers and helicopters for the Forces. That's extreme. The Forces need to be better equipped, but we have to make sensible and fiscally responsible choices. Creating a Minister of US Relations (Canadian ambassador to US) plus creating a Secretary of US/Can relations. Might need one, but both? That's extremely. And a cabinet minister for American relations, forget it. Paying for a missile defence system that doesn't work and isn't needed. That's extreme.

These things seem extreme... to someone occupying an extreme. The centre looks extreme from the far wings.

	11-06-2004 22:47									#129
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither These things seem extreme... to someone occupying an extreme. The centre looks extreme from the far wings.

Own goal

	11-06-2004 23:56									#130
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What the **** is this supposed to mean?

# Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 100)
# Gilles Duceppe Leader of the Bloc Quebecois (score = 67)
# Paul Martin Leader of Liberal Party of Canada, Prime Minister of Canada (score = 44)

	12-06-2004 00:20									#131
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Meh, started to type out my responses to each one. Too much effort required.

	12-06-2004 01:43									#132
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I'm with Asher: WTF?

Duceppe - 100 (!)
Layton - 92
Martin - 83
Harper - 50

I had very few "Strongly"s: 1995 health care funding (it's time for the feds to put up or shut up), abolish gun registry (pure waste of money), increase military spending (we're not far off being a complete joke to our allies), legalize same-sex marriage (no justifiable reason to ban it), and support citizenship for the Khadr family (if the state decides it has the power to strip citizenship, we're all going down a slippery slope to hell; the sole exception I could see would be a fraudulent application).

I wonder how much some of those other issues play into this -- fixed election dates and elected Senate I came in at middle-of-the-road, and I've got a partial lean toward allowing some private health care (I rationalize that with the 1995 funding by saying if the feds won't put up the money, they forfeit the right to tell the provinces what to do any longer). I'm somewhat pro-choice and neutral on Kyoto. And national holidays? Who gives a ****?

	12-06-2004 05:27									#133
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quote: Even an extreme right-winger like Ben agrees with 42%.

Well, recall that I am a pacifist, so that tends to shank things off to the left.

This is why I score higher for the NDP than for either the BQ or the LIB

	12-06-2004 05:30									#134
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quote: # Jack Layton Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada (score = 100) # Stephen Harper Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada (score = 100)

Ahh, another closet lefty smoked out.

	12-06-2004 05:35									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Well, recall that I am a pacifist, so that tends to shank things off to the left. This is why I score higher for the NDP than for either the BQ or the LIB

the BQ are just as "pacifist" as the NDP (if not more), so that can't be it...

	12-06-2004 07:20									#136
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quote: Originally posted by optimus2861 if the state decides it has the power to strip citizenship, we're all going down a slippery slope to hell; the sole exception I could see would be a fraudulent application).

They already do, but only for those who do something serious to warrant it. It's simple, if you are born here, Canada is stuck with you even if you are Clifford Olsen. Citizenship cannot be touched by anybody in that case.

However, if you were not born here, you had to apply at some point or other for citizenship. In that case, your citizenship can be revoked by a judge after the government makes it's case and you and your representative have a chance to respond.

A criminal conviction is grounds for revokation and deportation. I'm not sure what else might be, but I suspect Ma Khadr is very close to it.

	12-06-2004 09:47									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki Meh, started to type out my responses to each one. Too much effort required.

Quitter!

It looked like fun, and so I attempt...

(Also, I just retook the test with slightly different answers, 'cause I thought about them a little bit... New Results:
Layton-100
Duceppe-63
Martin-53
Harper-37

_______________________________

THE CINCH MANIFESTO

1. I strongly wish to keep the health care system public. I think it can and will work, given adequate funding and innovation.

2. I strongly support increasing Federal Health spending to pre-1995 levels. A helping hand will be needed to rejuvenate an aging system.

3. I somewhat disagree with immediate reduction of personal income taxes. I don't think we're in that dire of a strait at the moment, frankly.

4. I am neutral on business taxes. I wish to see them cut in certain ways to attract jobs, but I don't want to give my full support to willy-nilly tax-slashing. Tax reductions also must come hand in hand with corporate-welfare reductions.

5. I strongly support the decriminalisation (and taxation! ) of marijuana.

6. I somewhat support the missile defence system. I agree with NYE's position: this is not the battle to take to the Americans. This is not the real bogeyman.

7. I strongly wish to maintain federal gas taxes. The government can certainly use this revenue, and I'd like to see some of it put into public transit initiatives.

8. I strongly support the abolition of the gun registry.

9. I wish for the Canadian government to strongly oppose the American actions in Iraq, but to also aid in the reconstruction. Condemn the past, but work for the future.

10. I somewhat oppose having the federal government work with seperatists. The only reason I don't 'strongly' oppose it is because of the 'former seperatist' caveat... If they have reformed, why not let 'em into the circle?

11. I strongly support an increase in military spending. It is necessary for our sovereignty as well as for adequate peacekeeping and peacebuilding actions.

12. I am neutral concerning the Kyoto Accord. I support reduced emissions, but am not entirely convinced of the particulars of this treaty as of yet.

13. I strongly support same-sex marriage.

14. I strongly favour a woman's right to choose. Abortion is not a wonderful thing, but it is better than having the state hold dominion over a woman's body.

15. I strongly support an elected senate that will protect less populated regions from wanton disregard by the denser areas.

16. I am neutral on post-secondary fees... I feel too biased to call for lower fees, even though I do see the benefits. Perhaps maintain the current fees, but invest in more schoalrships for the deserving.

17. I am neutral on the election dates issue.

18. I am against new holidays. We have enough already!

19. I somewhat support the citizenship of the Khadrs. I don't think stripping them of it is the best way to go about things at this moment.

The End.

	12-06-2004 11:07									#138
	Suffering from ads?

I think Martin is in the process of complete self-immolation. A Tory majority is not out of the question, and his continued wrapping of the flag around himself and 'Liberal' ideas (and corruption) is driving more people in the direction of Harper and Duceppe. Ironic, but that is the sin bin reaction in action when accompanied by gross misconduct.

My bet is the NDP will do better as well, if things keep going. Far from losing votes to Liberal safety, more will be driven (gagging) from the Liberal tent, back to where they should have been voting for the last 20 years.

That's my take. I'll do seat predictions after the debates and a few days to gauge reactions. However, I'm seeing a Liberal wipe-out (less than 60 seats) as being very possible.

	13-06-2004 07:39									#139
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quote: the BQ are just as "pacifist" as the NDP (if not more), so that can't be it...

Well, my response was moderate disagreement with the war on terror rather than strong disagreement.

	13-06-2004 09:05									#140
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quote: Contradictions revealed in poll Voters show attachment to issues identified with Liberals Yet disaffection driving them to Conservatives, survey shows SUSAN DELACOURT OTTAWA BUREAU CHIEF Canadians appear to want a Liberal-style government led by Stephen Harper's Conservatives, according to a new Toronto Star poll. This contradiction emerges when respondents to the EKOS Research Associates poll were probed more deeply this week about the issues behind the tight Liberal-Conservative race in the federal election campaign. Though the Conservatives now have the lead and the momentum, with 34 per cent support against the Liberals' 30 per cent, the poll also shows significant voter attachment to issues closer to the platforms of Prime Minister Paul Martin and even the New Democratic Party. "There is little sense that the country will be better under Harper-Conservative rule. In fact, most see the possibility of a Conservative government as weakening key areas of Canadian achievement," EKOS president Frank Graves says. "In essence, what we are seeing is disaffection with the Liberals overwhelming wariness of the Conservatives." Almost two-thirds of the respondents to the EKOS poll, conducted for the Star and La Presse, believe that the Liberals will win the election and 69 per cent believe it will be a minority. Only 16 per cent said the most important reason to vote on June 28 is to kick the Liberals out of office. Four times that number, 64 per cent, said the choice should be motivated by what's best for the country. Yet 51 per cent of the respondents said the Liberals didn't deserve to be re-elected and 48 per cent said Martin didn't deserve the mandate he's seeking. The preferred alliance in any future minority government is one between the Liberals and the New Democrats, with 26 per cent of respondents saying this would be best for the country. Next favourite is a Conservative-NDP government, with 20 per cent — an apparent indication that Canadians would like to see the New Democrats hold the balance of power no matter which party gets the most seats. The poll was conducted through 2,117 telephone interviews with Canadians 18 years of age and older from Monday to Wednesday this week. Results are considered accurate within 2.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20. Over-all, the poll showed that most respondents placed abundantly more faith in the Liberals to strengthen the social agenda. A full 46 per cent said Liberals would strengthen equal rights for same-sex couples, compared to 17 per cent who thought Conservatives would do the same. On women's rights and access to abortion, 43 per cent said Liberals would strengthen them, compared to 21 per cent for Conservatives. Liberals were also trusted more to keep up the commitment to the Kyoto air-quality protocol, with 41 per cent saying it would be strengthened by Martin's team, compared to 21 per cent who placed their faith in Harper (who said this week that the Kyoto accord was effectively dead). On specific issues being raised in the campaign, the poll respondents showed more Liberal-NDP leanings. On health care, for instance, 54 per cent support national health standards, while 42 per cent would leave those to the provinces. On financing health care, a full 40 per cent preferred that this happen through tax or premium increases of some kind, and more Ontarians were offended by the recent budget's broken promises than the actual health-care premium increases. The Conservatives favour tax cuts, while Liberals and New Democrats have not ruled out Canadians paying more for health care. Meanwhile, 54 per cent of Ontario respondents said the broken promises bothered them most about Premier Dalton McGuinty's recent budget, while only 24 per cent said they resented the money being taken out of their pocket. Same-sex marriage, supported by the Liberals and especially the New Democrats, is also supported by 53 per cent of the poll respondents. Mandatory abortion counselling, one of the hot-button issues in the campaign after it was raised by a Conservative MP, is opposed by 56 per cent of the people surveyed. Even on the issues on which Harper and the Conservatives claim as their own — trust, prudence and integrity — voters aren't embracing the front-runners with any enthusiasm. "Surprisingly, Mr. Harper is not being viewed as the guy to clean house in Ottawa," Graves says. "Rather, he seems to be filling the vacuum caused by the air leaving Paul Martin's rapidly deflating balloon."

Joy. 21 percent of Canadians think that the Conservatives are sane enough to be pro-Kyoto. This bodes well.

	13-06-2004 09:39									#141
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Bill Tieleman (former NDP hack, current media pundit) on the problems with the Federal Election polls.

From the Georgia Straight.

quote: POLLSTERS IPSOS CANADA seem intent on proving true former prime minister John Diefenbaker's statement that polls are for dogs to urinate on. Take the June 1 Ipsos poll conducted for CTV and the Globe and Mail. Their widely reported news release said: "Jack Layton's recent campaigning has not proved fruitful for the NDP in British Columbia, as they have dropped 6 points to 14% decided voter support." In an e-mail to the Straight, Ipsos president Darrell Bricker declined to give a regional breakdown of his results in B.C. "It's a nation-wide sample of 1,000. It's proportionate to pop[ulation]. You can figure out the rest," he wrote. But the detailed Ipsos tables on other questions showed the sample size was a mere 132 people in B.C. And the last regional Ipsos breakdown on May 22 used just 116 decided voters to determine party choice. (The company's quarterly B.C.­politics polls regularly sample about 800 residents.) That probably means a margin of error of about nine percent, larger than the alleged drop of six points in the polls! More damning is that just days later, on June 5, another Ipsos poll had the NDP jumping back up nine points, to 23 percent. The sketchy sample size may be why Ipsos also absolutely bizarrely predicted on June 5 that the Green party could actually win two B.C. seats, which even Adriane Carr said would be "remarkable".

	13-06-2004 09:53									#142
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Yep.

That's why it's dangerous to correlate provincially based on the size of these polls.

	13-06-2004 09:55									#143
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quote: Joy. 21 percent of Canadians think that the Conservatives are sane enough to be pro-Kyoto. This bodes well.

How many of that number even understand anything about Kyoto? That I would be curious to know.

	13-06-2004 10:11									#144
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Probably the same number as the anti-kyoto crowd.

	13-06-2004 10:31									#145
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Latest Ipsos-Reid saying that support for the NDP has increased to 27% in BC, up from 11% in the last election. Based on poll of 1,066 BCers.

Conservative support in BC down to 33% from the 56% support achieved by the old Alliance and PC parties in the last election.

It will be interesting to see how this is reported.

	13-06-2004 10:37									#146
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Where do you currently live, Tingkai?

	13-06-2004 10:42									#147
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HK. Planning on moving back to Toronto in the fall.

	13-06-2004 10:44									#148
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Did you vote? If so, what riding?

	13-06-2004 10:49									#149
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No, I can't vote because I'm no longer a resident of Canada.

This is one of many reasons why I want to move back. I feel detached from everything. I can't vote in Canada, can't vote here (and even if I could I don't know if I would feel comfortable getting involved in local politics).

I'm seriously thinking about trying to get a job with the NDP as a writer/editor when I move back.

	13-06-2004 10:52									#150
	Tired of ads?

You could have voted even if you are no longer a Canadian resident as long as you have visited Canada in the last 5 years and intend to reassert your Canadian residence iat some point in the future.

quote: Voter eligibility criteria Do not use the form if you are at your ordinary residence and wish to vote by special ballot. If this is the case, click here to get information on voting by special ballot in your own electoral district. If you are a Canadian citizen (other than a member of the Canadian Forces) who will be 18 years of age on June 28, you may register to vote using the form provided here if: your permanent residence is in Canada, but you expect to be outside your electoral district, either in Canada or elsewhere, on polling day and during the advance polls at an election; or you have been residing outside Canada for less than five consecutive years since your last visit to Canada, and you intend to resume residence in Canada.

http://www.elections.ca/content.asp...&textonly=false