08-06-2004 16:50									#1
	Quick games on hard levels Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It seems to me that most people who win on the hardest levels, do so by playing on large maps and building more cities than the opponents by doing something called 'rexing' , whatever that means.

but i like to play quick games.

So what if you start on an island by yourself with only enough room for about 8 or 9 cities and no point in trying to find other land, does anyone win in this situation on the hardest levels? and if so how? what are the top tips?

	08-06-2004 20:41									#2
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Your newbie status is very apparent. I suggest go you the topped, must-read thread (Must Read Thread for Newer Players). You will find lots of good information. I'll answer or correct a few of your statements, but for better and in-depth answers go to the topped thread.

REXing - Rapid EXpansion. Basicly building cities as quickly as possible. Find a good food producing city and build an early early granary. This city becomes a Settler Pump and churns out settlers every 4-6 turns. This is a very basic explaination.

What do you mean by higher levels? To some Emperor is considered a higher level, but it's a "piece of cake" comparted to Demi-god; and forget about Sid.

On higher levels, I've seen victories on all sorts of maps. Although the map type does make some difference, the main thing is the player skill, and ability to adjust to different situations.

Actually, on an island map, the first thing you want to do is search out for other civs and nearby land. For such a small island, REXing is as important, you'll be able to quickly settle your island. On the other hand, send out ships will, hopefully, net some tech. trading partners. If these partners are not in contact, then you can play them against each other. That is trading for a tech from Civ A, and then selling the same tech to Civ B. This is very profitable, and is the best way to stay ahead "tech wise" until the middle ages.

Also you need to find a bigger landmass, a 8-9 city island is unlikely to win the game. Also, with Conquest, resource scarsity is a big issue.

I could go on and on, but basicly all of your questions are answered brilliantly (by smarter players than I) in the Must-Read thread. Of course, you must take the time to read, study, and experiment...otherwise no one can help you.

	08-06-2004 20:49									#3
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hi mala

firstly "Rexing" is the term used to describe the way your Civ colonises your patch (be it an island or part of a larger landmass)

as the level goes up in difficulty this stage becomes more and more important. the AI gets big bonuses as the level increases. eg at SID level the AI gets free settlers and 12 free units at the start.

also this is an area where the human player has an advantage over the AI (if he/she wants to play that way). a human player will squeeze more cities into the same space than the AI would.

quote: So what if you start on an island by yourself with only enough room for about 8 or 9 cities and no point in trying to find other land, does anyone win in this situation on the hardest levels? and if so how? what are the top tips?

on the hardest levels this is the only way i know how to beat the AI. my reasoning is that i dont need a military and i only build the infrastructure that i need (ie no barracks if ive no military, no librarys if not doing my own reaserch ect). i concentrate on improving my land with workers (at least 1 per city, 2 is better), and of course building settlers.

Also on higher difficulties it becomes more and more difficult to do your own reaserch. this is why on harder levels the player should do his/her utmost to make contact with the othjer Civs. this allows the human to trade techs with the AI.

i can understand your desire to play small games, but as i see it you have a bigger chance of winning as the map gets bigger.

	08-06-2004 22:10									#4
	Re: Quick games on hard levels Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by mala So what if you start on an island by yourself with only enough room for about 8 or 9 cities and no point in trying to find other land, does anyone win in this situation on the hardest levels? and if so how? what are the top tips?

You will have big problems at Sid with only 9 cities. I have attacked civs with 8 cities on Sid and they can muster about 700 units of ancient troops.

You cannot build enough production to do anything with such a small empire.

If the map is std or even smaller, the AI will make contact too soon and the tech rate will race away. You will be in big trouble.

At this point the best bet is to have a large or huge map with lots of water and no barbs. This helps dampen the research rates.

You need time to build up a decent empire and enough troops to hold them back (if going for diplomacy) or even more to take down one or two (if going for space).

	08-06-2004 23:54									#5
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Actually i'm not a newbie i've been playing for a few years now, not to mention years of civ1 and civ2. (i'm new to sites like this though).

Emperor is the level i'm stuck at, but this annoyes me as on civ 1 and civ 2 i would win on the hardest level everytime (i know its probably harder now though)

A few have said its important to trade with other civs, but what if you have nothing to trade? as rexing usually means i get left behind in science.

imagine if all civs started on their own identical island surrounded by mountains (ie no ships) so there is no trade or wars. what would be the hardest level to win at? As i think that this is my problem, i dont like wars and i cant be bothered to do trades and so on, i like to sit there and press the enter key (more or less as just doing that would be pointless) none of that micro management though.

	09-06-2004 01:09									#6
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Yes CivII was quite easy to beat at deity. C3C is not so easy to beat at the highest levels. So many things are different, especially wonders and combat. No more holding a city with a wall and one good unit.

Trading can be used very effectively, but I do not use it much, so it is not required. It does make it easier though. One thing people will do is to get a tech that no one has and peddle it around.

You can even do this by buying the tech from the leader and selling to others.

You don't say if this is CivIII/PTW or C3C.

At Emperor, you should expect to fall behind in the tech race for the first age or so. You can get back in the race by growing your empire and/or using the Great Lib.

	09-06-2004 01:16									#7
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quote: Originally posted by mala imagine if all civs started on their own identical island surrounded by mountains (ie no ships) so there is no trade or wars. what would be the hardest level to win at? As i think that this is my problem, i dont like wars and i cant be bothered to do trades and so on, i like to sit there and press the enter key (more or less as just doing that would be pointless) none of that micro management though.

Well if no ships were allowed in the game, then the mountains would not be need. If ships were allowed the mountains would not prevent contacts as a unit could be on a mountain.

I am not sure what the impact of air would be as you could recon, if in range.

I think the thing is that the world you talk about would probably break down around deity. It is just a guess, but the amount of bonus and extra starting units should let them over come your better planning.

In fact if you are not going to micromanage, I am not sure you would have an edge in planning, maybe city placement.

Back to the real game, you will find it hard to beat the AI on emperor and beyond, if you are not willing to do some micromanagment. I mean, how could you if you use the same governors as the AI. The only way then is to have a superior start and that may be offset by their bonus and willingness to trade and war with each other.

	09-06-2004 02:16									#8
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I am of the "some" micro-management camp. That is to say, I check the trade screen every 6-7 turns. I try to optimize key cities (settler pump, wonder city, etc.). Especially after you get over 10 cities, managing every city is too tedious for my tastes.

mala, I'm in the same position as you. I can win at Emperor most of the time. When I start playing Demi-God, my winning percentage goes way down (< 10%). Forget about Sid level.

On the positive side, many players consider Emperor as a high level and they generally play at Regent. I would say, in general, you are an above average player if you win at Emperor.

	09-06-2004 03:58									#9
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excellent. with just a little bit more care and attention i'm sure i can win at emperor most of the time. and as i'm not prepared to do too much micro management and as i don't like building the GL , i'm going to accept that i'm not going to go any higher, but at least it sounds as if i'm above average.

Cheers Imtoops

I am going to play some games on larger maps though and see what happens.

ps. ive posted a poll in the general section on what difficulty people can win at.

	09-06-2004 06:01									#10
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* Mr Justice chuckles,

u expect honest replies?

	09-06-2004 07:37									#11
	Re: Quick games on hard levels Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by mala So what if you start on an island by yourself with only enough room for about 8 or 9 cities and no point in trying to find other land, does anyone win in this situation on the hardest levels? and if so how? what are the top tips?

You need to get a curragh or three out and looking for other civs.

If you can make contact with most of the civs early you can broker techs to the others for fun and profit.

If you are on small island, you should pack cities rather tight to get in as many as you can (CxC) some extra room for the wonder city may be ok.

If you have open islands nearby grab them, if not then you need to build up a fleet of galleys and units to invade.

Take advantage of any ancient age UU you may have and avoid civs that have one, unless they are very backward.

If no UU, go with swords or horses if you have them. Agument them with cats if you have enough shipping.

Landing on a hill or mountain with a few cats and units can do a lot to an AI. If they are going to be tough, you can bring a settler to make a city to get extra bonus for defense and rush a wall and barracks.

If you can get a MGL, make any army and take them out.

Note you can't land cats on a mountain.

	09-06-2004 13:03									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: So what if you start on an island by yourself with only enough room for about 8 or 9 cities and no point in trying to find other land, does anyone win in this situation on the hardest levels? and if so how? what are the top tips?

I actually did that on Deity (vanilla Civ III) some months ago - and I won (playing the English). The map allowed me to have 12-13 cities, though. The top tips ?

1) Go for map making and search for the other civs. You will realize that you are many techs behind in the tech race (when I made contact, the other civs were almost in the medieval era, and I had 5-6 techs.). But you will now be able to research the simple techs at a 4-5 turn rate. Try to reach a point where you can trade techs with the less advanced civs (Zulu, Romans, etc.) and work your way up. There are about 4 techs in the end of the medieval era that you don't need to advance to the industrial era, and if you get the Theory of Evolution, you will become the tech leader.

2) Don't count on building any wonder before the industrial era, and don't count on getting any leader. Try to build all wonders after that (possible if you have the Hoover Dam and use palace pre-builds) !

3) Exploit the fact that the AI civs are lousy at naval invasions. Build destroyers and artillery to fend them off.

4) It will get nasty at some point. Concentrate on damaging your opponents, instead of gaining something yourself. You will have to fight wars that you cannot win. Trigger wars with espionage (steal tech), and have your invasion force ready. Use spies to check their nuke inventory first, though

5) All other tips and tricks that you can learn from this forum

Good luck! - You'll need it.

	09-06-2004 18:36									#13
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Don Giovanni makes a good point about stealing techs with spies. In the industrial age, if the AI has the tech lead then it's only way to win.

I was just thinking, has any one tried to attempt a "tech stealing" strategy. That is to say, use tech stealing frequently, and in all ages. I suppose the problem with these strategy is the lack of excess gold. The gold is better used rushing infrastructure.

	09-06-2004 19:10									#14
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quote: I was just thinking, has any one tried to attempt a "tech stealing" strategy. That is to say, use tech stealing frequently, and in all ages. I suppose the problem with these strategy is the lack of excess gold. The gold is better used rushing infrastructure

yes lmtoops. thats how im trying to beat sid atm.

all the gory details in the sid thread

click here for sid thread

but suffice to say that since the game started i have only reaserched the following techs
writing, literature (Failed GL attemt) and printing press.

every thing else has been stolen. im currently in middle industrual.

so no i dont agree with your statement.

	09-06-2004 21:25									#15
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Remember this is only at emperor, so if you can get your empire going you can do just fine at research and wonders during the middle ages.

Since the start was not so good it may be a harder, but if they are all on island, it is not so bad.