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Drachen
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Justice
but their main force has surrounded my City and are gunna attack next turn. id estimate ~ 60-80 units (horse, swordsman, archer, mech inf and pike (mostly attacking units))
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I was rereading your post and did you mean to say mech inf? That would change things a bit.
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Drachen
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quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
Probably a mistake and meant Med Inf, not Mech Inf. |
Probably.
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Drachen
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I chose the Vikings for my current game with game settings at large 80% archipelago, normal, temperate, 4 billion years, sedentary barbs, default rules, normal aggression, and 8 random opponents.
 Attachment: savegame.jpg
This has been downloaded 85 time(s).
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Drachen
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quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
Did you have a bunch of interlopers on your maqinland, early in the game? |
I started alone and then got a fair bit of company after Mapmaking. I rather like it though as it gives me a chance to generate some leaders.
Attachment: interlopers.jpg
This has been downloaded 80 time(s).
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Drachen
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Huge landmasses are tough on Sid, but for mid sized islands if I control a larger portion of the island than any other player then odds are that I’m going to win out. I look at it as settlers I don’t have to produce.
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Drachen
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The Ottomans are another of my favorites, but I did come away from my last game with them thinking that the golden age was a bit late and lost some of its game altering power.
The Sipahi are just awesome.
Late blooming civs like the Ottomans might be Sid powerhouses, all things being equal, but I still can't see how alternate research paths could provide even a significant portion of the benefits provided by the Alphabet/Writing path...which isn't open to them. I guess I'll have to do some experimenting one of these days
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Mr Justice
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thanks guys, im still plugging away at this game.
didnt get much chance to play over weekend.
quote:
And here's the win.. |
 drachen, um i did spend a long time thinking about how gr8 it would have been if i had the berserker unit.
quote:
Probably a mistake and meant Med Inf, not Mech Inf. |
yes, med inf it was.
well i finished my war with Arabia. took me approx 30 turns to wipe them out (including my GA). its around 1300 in game atm.
that war was a struggle, my tech advantage didnt really come into play so much as knights trerbs and SMs are not much better than med inf, pikes, swords and horse.
i got 5 leaders out of the conflict (2 from defending), and kept one back to rush an FP (done). i purposely built my FB in a city with both Iron and Coal, so 0% corruption city with ironworks on the way  .
i also managed to trap ~30 pikemen in the open, when i blocked my border with arabia at one point in the war all their units retreated to citiies. the predominant unit was pikeman and i didnt want to have to take out the last 4 cities with loads a pikemen in it, so i opened a gap, and Arabia sent out his big stacks of pikes (theyd no offensive capability left). using a group of unguarded workers i trapped them by the sea and surrounded them with 5 SMs, i just left them there untill i wiped out all their cities, then they dissapeared .
the policy of razing and leaving the land unoccupied wasnt the success i was hoping for. all that achieved was a russian settler boat came my way. it first half of the war it hampered me cause my supply lines to the front were slow moving. 2nd half i just razed and built more or less straight away, last 2 cities i kept as flipping was not an issue when they had noone to flip to. i prevented the russian settler by surrounding their ship with 9 of my boats, i wanted to make sure they didnt get lost in my region of the sea 
WW was a big issue towards then end. when my GA was on id no probs with happieness (lux rate 40%) most my cities were in WLTKD and i was still pulling in ~250 gpt. however when my GA finished i had to up lux to 50% and combined with my large support payments i was pulling in a miserly 20gpt. switched some cities to wealth and upped it to 100gpt. that is massively not enuf for meh, when im not earning i cant steal tech.
however as the war was winding down and it finished i disbanded my entire military bar my 4 armies. this enabled me to moreorless build grainary/temple and somecases marketplace in my nice shiney new cities with little or no cost to me. (9 cities)
now that ive no WW and no military im back to raking in the cash. atm its 710gpt (100% or 90% taxrate) starting to build a whole new military (well infantry and artilliary)
ive a palce prebuild nearly finished, but am gunna change that over to Universal sufferage, (only need industrialization, thanks russia). was hoping to get Hoovers with this, but AIS not following that line of reaserch. i have a pentagon build too, but not sure if i can build soimething else with it.
i'm not long into the industrial age, RRing my homeland and once thats done i'll move my workers over to my new island and improve the existing improvements and then join the cities. starting with my ironworks city.
Russia has probably become a KAI, its still not too far ahead of me, but is beggining to leave the other AIs way behind. they have reduced the hittites to 1/2 their original size. am trying to give hittites rubber, but cant trade with em for some reason atm.
mongolia is next for meh, not sure if i'll take their entire island, but one of their cities has 4 silks in its city radius. i have determined that that city infact belongs to me, by divine decree of course.
during the war i was less confident that i could win this game. but since comming out of the war and raking in 710gpt my optomisism is back in spades, espicially since ive big potential pop growth in my new island (none of the cities are bigger than 3 atm) and ive an FP on that island.
only thing that worried me was i noticed little or no effect of FP on other cities on that island, i've heard that this can happen sometimes that ranks arent recalculated. im hoping when i reload the the game it will be fixed (so ive read here before).
i'll try do up some images and saves tonight.
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Mr Justice
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the lack of reasources didnt really hurt me (being no iron, horses or satpeter on my home island).
i missed out on calv becuase of it, but at the time i didnt have the tech to produce calv when my war started. so access to saltpeter would have only ment some calv late on in the war. pointless now cause im building infantry now so calv are obsolete for meh.
but ive no probs with strategic reasources now. 3 rubber on my home.
i am short on Lux, only 3 types on my island, have realitivly easy military acces to 1-2 more thats it. after that its the 3 big AI's who have em.
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Mr Justice
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it would have been much easier had i calvs vmxa1, but im currently planning for my next Inf and Tank and atillary military. dunno how many turns i'll wait till taking on russia, at least 40 id think. depending on how they grow. u think they are a KAI yet?
keeping units just costs me 2 gpt per unit. the only units i have now are ships (galleons), workers, 4 armies and a couple of SMs in my island cities.
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vmxa1
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Oviedo, Fl
Nov 2001
time: 21:35
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They are on their way. How are you getting by with no spending on Luxs? Are you using entertainers?
IIRC you have three lux.
Anyway I would build up troops and take down some of my neighbors and leave Russia alone. If you get enough troops and armies, they will tend to stay out of your hair.
If you don't get more land, you could be missing key resources, especially if you need a space launch and uranium. More land means more support for troops. More troops means less chance of attacks.
Otherwise you have to worry that russia will eat the other first. Then later you have to contented with bombers and still later nukes. I would build nukes to have MAD.
It tends to keep them in check.
Last edited by vmxa1 on 09-06-2004 at 01:19
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Drachen
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The Berserks are a great unit but in my game I didn’t get to an off Island invasion until Infantry and by then the Berserks weren’t really needed. So for my Sid play style I’d just prefer a fast mover like Riders or Sipahi if I had a choice.
I think I differ with Vmxa1 a bit on this one. If Russia isn’t particularly close to Flight I think I’d take them on. They have a large rich landmass, they’re within invasion range, and they look to be much more of a threat to your game than any of the other AIs. I’d do most of the following in the order that seemed expedient: get ToE and Hoover if possible, find a way into communism, plant a spy, get Russia to declare war, make a worldwide coalition against them, defend my home turf, pillage them with armies and explorers, drop a settler and negotiate a peace treaty, build up my beachhead, get Russia to re-declare war, wear them down with my beachhead defenses, and then bury them. After that you can choose how you wish to win. The risky part is if Russia is too far ahead and gets Flight they might cause you some real trouble. I’ve never invaded an AI with flight so I don’t know if they use bombers effectively or not. I can give you a save game to test it if you wish. Anyway, you seem to have a real shot at winning whichever way you go so keep us posted.
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Mr Justice
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i had up to 7 lux,
but only 5 atm becuase Russia declared war on me. i was getting 2 lux from em.
russia is close enuf to flight, last time i stole from em i noticed They were reaserching combustion. they are sending the usual 4/8 units in ship groups of 3 frig/1 galleon. my measly military can easily cope with that.
i think im gunna send an force to russias foul shores. land 10-20 inf on a hill and let russia pound it senceless. if i create a city then the russians will flood my terrortory with units, triggering big WW. russia is all RR so what ever i land on their turf can expect the entire russian military to attack. although ive build universal sufferage so WW shouldnt be as big as it was.
still raking in the cash, ~820 per turn, but this will go down as i need to increase lux rate to compensate for WW. can steal communisism from hittites. after that im depending on stealing from russia.
will stick it out for a while before involving other AI in the war. dont want russia taking any more land. im currently ramping up production capabilities by building factories in my main cities.
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Drachen
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quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
My only contention is that the containment path is the least risky.
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The Russians are pretty far ahead so containment might be less risky. If you were going to follow that path how would you plan to win the game and what steps would you take to get there?
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Drachen
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Justice
i think im gunna send an force to russias foul shores. land 10-20 inf on a hill and let russia pound it senceless. if i create a city then the russians will flood my terrortory with units, triggering big WW. russia is all RR so what ever i land on their turf can expect the entire russian military to attack. |
Having twenty defenders wiped out will take you a long way towards advanced WW and the Ruskies will make up their losses in short order. WW will also be a significant factor if you decide to attack smaller nations in going for a domination win. WW really limits your options at Sid and that's one of the reasons to get to communism. Some others are that it's by far the most productive government for a far flung empire and your spies are veterans which increases the chances for successful espionage missions which you can carry out even when you’re at war with the target.
As far as the entire Russian military attacking you quickly because of RR...well they wont be able to if you've pillaged them to bare earth with 4 armies and 20 explorers. A tactic you can carry out with slowly progressing WW and one that has the added benefit of slowing them down in tech, production, food, and happiness.
It sounds like the Russians have a tech lead over everybody else and you need to figure out how you’re going to prevent them from getting a Spaceship win. So, if any of the other AIs are able to research something they could trade the Russians for then you need to prevent this trade via an alliance or an embargo.
Bonne chance!
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Mr Justice
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dose loosing units Affect WW?
my understanding was that WW is a cumulatitive penalty on happiness (im presuming calculated based on length of time at war)
with WW being increassed for each of your units on their turf and each unit of theirs on your turf.
does it also include results of the war? as in if ur losing units then WW is worse? or if u kill enemy units dose it improve WW?
i dont think i can afford a gov change.
9 turns is nearly 2 techs. cant afford that slippage (although if i cant steal from russia it might be worth it.)
need to build IA before i can steal from russia while at war.
im not concerned about losing units to the AI. i want to keep him producing units , so that he cant build other stuff.
might get other island Civs declare on russia. with all those wars it might go into overdrive to produce units. but will still only invade with 4/8 units each time (big hopefully). dunno.
one positive thing is that i can land an invasion force 1 tile from moscow on a hill or mountain.
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Drachen
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Justice
i dont think i can afford a gov change.
9 turns is nearly 2 techs. cant afford that slippage (although if i cant steal from russia it might be worth it.)
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There’s a lot of good info on WW in the thread Krill posted. (Thanks Krill – I couldn’t find a good WW link when I was looking earlier)
My government changes have been less than 9 turns in recent games. You can do a sample test with your game by going back to an earlier save and seeing how long it takes to switch. You can designate a scientist to research something like ironclads which the other AIs aren’t likely to research and which you can use to tech trade. That research will continue throughout the anarchy period. You can also be preparing for future tech theft by building up your treasury during anarchy by receiving GPT from other civs. Sell resources and old techs for whatever the market will bear. It seems to me that whatever you lose due to anarchy you will make up in increases in income, productivity, war flexibility, and successful thefts after entering communism. You are however much closer to the action and may have insights that would counter the points I just made.
I’ll be interested to see what Vmxa has to say about his containment strategy but I still think you need to be going after Russia to save your game…unless you feel it would be easier to get a domination win by rolling over the weaker AIs before Russia can launch their ship. I will note that it may be difficult to prevent a Russian launch by sabotage alone. I destroyed a KAIs UN build something like 6 times in an earlier Sid game but it ate up all my cash and so my tech theft came to a standstill and IIRC he got it in the end after a sabotage attempt failed.
Edit: cross post with Vmxa.
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Drachen
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quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
Get on par with tech via steals and maybe researching a tech that is skipped.
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There's the rub. What if Russia is researching faster than Mr. Justice can successfully steal? Mr. Justice hasn't been able to stay even using tech theft up to this point so what has changed enough that he can start to pull even by stealing now? If you go after Russia, successfully, then you get stronger while they get weaker. Going after Russia plays to the strengths of the human player and seems the safer move to me.
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05-06-2004 07:33
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