11-06-2004 02:50									#61
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Declaring war sounds good. Just another question, If I attack someone can they conter-attack on the same turn by ordering their armies to, but if I didn't attack they would not do anything? or do they have to wait till I attack, than on the next turn they can attack?

put my vote for 2! 3 if 2 is losing though.

	11-06-2004 02:57									#62
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I think trade should be made more lucrative to provide an alternative to war which favours the attacker.

Also, techs must be much more expensive.

	11-06-2004 03:12									#63
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Today I met with Ljikga Ljcvetko, the woman from the east. She said that her father was a "wise and kind man, very much like yourself." She told me of a people they met called the "Spaced Dudes". They had met them around the time of our failure at building the Tower of Babel. Ljube's people thought they were going to have a peaceful coexistence, but not the Spaced Dudes did not. The Spaced Dudes attacked about the time we finished our Colloseum. They come, 6 in all, weilding swords which Ljikga told me "Were far less artistic and beautiful than yours." They suppressed the villigers and took the cities. Ljube told his daughter to flee to the west, but that is the limit of her knowledge of him. I told her she would be welcome and safe in my lands.

	11-06-2004 03:34									#64
	Put an end to popups!

quote: ) Declare Spaced winner and restart game with revised rules. 2) Change rules so that Spaced doesn't recieve income for conquered cities until this turn (puts his previous turn's income at 20 instead of 50) and re-run last turn.

I would accept either of these two options... and a rulechange in the future to require:

1.) War must be declared after tech 5 is discovered (or some diplomacy tech... or if a gvt. is a monarcy/republic)

2.) no war in the first 5 turns.

3.) Captured cities are in anarchy for the first turn after capture and are at 1/2 production for every turn thereafter.

	11-06-2004 03:40									#65
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smiley- your Box is full... but I think you might have gotten the first of my doubly sent message- however, if you have gotten the first, please say so here and note that I had only 40 gold, not 41, so please adjust accordingly...

and i really think we should restart, but allow undeclared war for now.

	11-06-2004 05:45									#66
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I'm leaning towards a restart also, it's only been 2 turns anyway. Some things to be changed...

Equidistant starting locations.

1 turn of zero production anarchy for captured cities.

War needs to be declared.

Earlier trade

Tech more expensive.

Keep The List coming.

	11-06-2004 06:00									#67
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If we restart could you start another thread, "Society, accepting new players." to see if we could get new people?

	11-06-2004 06:36									#68
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

well, the game seems simple enough and fun enough- so my two previous gripes were obviously unfounded

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by the way, I don't think that tech should be more expensive- it's good as it is right now- enough tech for about a 7-12 day game.
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However, once again, I think that the first 2 wonders are overpowered (at least the first one is) and that the next few are next to useless. unless of course the game can be won by a society that builds 7 of the 14 wonders!
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as for equidistant starting locations- i don't really see the necessity in that. if everyone had just chosen the corners as starting positions, like myself and whoever chose the northeast corner, then they wouldn't have run into ljube's dillemma
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I wouldn't argue for earlier trade- but I would argue this:

trade can happen between cities that are within 2 squares of eachother- nations don't have to be adjacent.

and trade gives more benefits (technological perhaps?) speeding production?

	11-06-2004 15:08									#69
	Put an end to popups!

Restart is ok by me. I'm so dead anyway. Gameis will invade next turn, there's no way to stop him, and he'd be a fool not to. He MUST still be mad for my Tower of Babel, which will then put him clearly in the #1 position.

-Jam

	11-06-2004 18:07									#70
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well not THIS turn, this turn i have to limit you to 2 cities and get another tech .

	11-06-2004 18:12									#71
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I'm okay for a reset and a little more balance on the rules.

I do not agree with raping captured cities production...else there is little incentive to attack. Perhaps 1/2 production on the turn after capture and then full-frontal production.

I still like war must be declared, but for sneak attacks a differnet combat formula must be used...less effective?

	11-06-2004 18:37									#72
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Or make it more effective but face penalties elsewhere (more expensive research for those who sneak attack).

	11-06-2004 20:29									#73
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Some further analysis.

Current system is not as unbalanced as originally thought, rather, Spaced got extremely lucky. Had Ljube not built the 3rd city that turn, his lead would have been large but not big enough to put him above everyone else combined.

Modifications are designed to give maximum benefit with minimum added complexity.

Tower of Babel
Not overpowered, we can see that the person who built it ends up disadvantaged, with half the income of the others.

Captured Cities
No production immediately afterwards, full each turn after.

Sneak attacks
As normal, but you're limited to capturing cities adjacent to your territory.

Technology costs
This needs balancing so that someone can't run away with the game easily, but at the same time, the game doesn't drag out for too long.

So I've been fiddling with some formulas, including powers of 2, Fibonnaci, and cubic. Results were not appealing, with the endgame techs having four-digit price tags.

The solution? Civ3 style, techs are cheaper for followers.
Cost = Base Price * (P - R / P)
P = Total number of players
R= Number of players who have discovered that particular technology.

Trade
Now, you will be able to trade with a player as many spaces away as your Tech Level. Trade income can be spent on production the same turn.

Wonders
Now buildable on the same turn you discover the tech. Should make things more competitive.
Also, changes to some...
3. Trojan Horse- you get to spy before Tech 7, and one extra after.
4. Acropolis- you have the option to change to Republic whenever, without a revolution.
5. Silk Road- allows trade with all players, not just neighbors. Caravan cost lowered to trading partner's tech level
6. Jihad- you can take any cities in a sneak attack
8. Trans-Siberian Railroad- Your cities may be built anywhere. No more 'no crossing enemy turf' rule.


Comments? I'll make some more corrections and post a new sign up thread later today.

	11-06-2004 20:44									#74
	Got spare money?

Excellent

	11-06-2004 21:11									#75
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Now, you will be able to trade with a player as many spaces away as your Tech Level. Trade income can be spent on production the same turn.

Very good

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If you can calculate the tech costs each turn, I'd apprecate it, however... the new system seems a bit complicated... though I'll admit- I probably could figure it out if I spent 10 minutes per turn. (don't want you doing too much work)

good luck!

	11-06-2004 22:37									#76
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well, congratulations to our first Caesar, Spaced Cowboy.

Society II Signup:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=116676