09-06-2004 06:00									#1
	State of the Next Game Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Let's kick some more organization into this.

Here's a list of things decided the past two months:

Democracy Team Game
SMAX
Transcend diificulty level
Four human teams: Gaians, Angels, Spartans, Morganites
Three competitive AIs: Peacekeepers, University, Hive. IIRC Googlie offered to give buster some tips how to boost them.

Civgroup icons: Created by Method/Kassi/Skanky IIRC. I saved the Spartan one on my HD, but I'm afraid that for the other factions' you'll have to go digging into one of the previous rec commons.

Map & Game Creator: buster
Moderator: position currently unfilled - poll will hopefully be held soon.

Map settings:

Large (or slightly smaller than large - whatever )
Medium water
Average rainfall
Rolling erosion
Moderate native life

Suggestion from buster: No matter what the map size is, all factions should be sufficiently clustered near each other to allow all playstyles: pacifist builder as well as agressive conqueror/prober.

There will be no boosted starting positions. Meaning no extra nut, min & energy bonus etc, and no extra starting units : just two CPs and a scout patrol, with of course the faction specific Angel probe team and Spartan disciplined rover.

Rules:

Higher Goal: Allow Victory by Transcendence. YES
Total War: Allow Victory by Conquest. YES
Peace in Our Time: Allow Diplomatic Victory. YES
Mine, All Mine: Allow Economic Victory. YES
One for All: Allow Cooperative Victory. NO
Do or Die: Don't restart eliminated players. YES
Look First: Flexible starting locations. YES
Tech Stagnation: Slower rate of research discoveries. NO
Spoils of War: Steal tech when conquer base. YES
Blind Research: Cannot set precise research goals. NO
Intense Rivalry: Opponents more aggressive. NO
No Unity Survey: World Map not visible. YES
No Unity Scattering: Supply Pods only at landing sites. NO
Bell Curve: No Random Events. NO
Time Warp: Accelerated Start. NO
Iron Man: Save/Restore restricted to exit. YES
Randomize faction leader personalities. NO
Randomize faction leader social agendas. NO

Empath Guild disabled.
Cloudbase Academy disabled.

Rules concerning game exploits

Probe rollover bug work-around?

Choppers are never allowed to attack bases.

Unifications are not allowed.

If a faction becomes so inactive that it can no longer normally participate in the ACDG, Codicil will be used to turn the faction into an AI. Any remaining active members are free to move to another faction.

It is allowed to build a turn simulator, where you can test out battle results or strategic plans years in advance. It is also allowed to use parallel turns of the official game to test out AI diplomacy (with the exception that you can't accept AI world map offers or trades) or some innocent internal affairs orders (crawler & former movements etc). However it is NOT allowed to use the official game turns to play ahead by eg testing out battle orders, scouting with units, or for example moving your probe units to check the probe cost of something and only then decide whether or not you're going to probe it.

It's not allowed to perform probe actions on a base that from one faction revolted to another human faction, unless the new owner decides and announces to keep the base. If the faction doesn't want the base that revolted to them, they have to gift it to an AI of their choice directly after receiving it if possible. If not possible, they have to starve the base and build a colony pod in order to destroy it, again as soon as possible (without hurrying). While disassembling the base, the new owner has the right though to sell off any facilities present in the base.

Not yet decided / To-do list:

Who's the game moderator?
Who are the private forum moderators? obstructor for Gaia? Skanky Burns for Sparta. Who for the other factions?
I guess Tass' super-mod powers (editing posts, changing poll options, etc...) should be removed after the current ACDG ends and he becomes a mere mortal Morganite.
Contact MarkG/DanQ for new fora and civgroups.
Make some extra propaganda for the next ACDG (after everything else is decided and things can get going. Otherwise newbies will join but lose interest again before the game has even started.)

What did I all forget to include?

Last edited by Maniac on 16-06-2004 at 05:49

	09-06-2004 06:09									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

I could mod the forum, since I'm not really going to be playing, just kinda hanging around and posting random stupid garbage like I always do. Or did drugs already apply for that? Or was it HongHu? I don't remember.

As long as I don't actually have to participate. Just you know, pop in, lock random threads, leave...I'd like to have _some_ purpose other than "guy who's only playing so he's got another forum to spam".

	09-06-2004 08:35									#3
	Support Apolyton

quote: Unifications are not allowed, unless without a unification a faction would come without any active players and would have to be removed from the game.

You know that's wrong, but won't admit it. Just the fact the other faction doesn't have any active players makes it too easy to be abused. It means it's a matter of who can woo the last player in the faction the best. Or if there isn't any real player, who can shout most loudly about why the faction should unify with them.

Unification via lack of activity has all the bad attributes of a normal unification. Only even more unbalanced than a normal perm-pact/unification since you'll end up with complete control of said faction and you don't have to go through 3 months of cultivating diplomancy like the Hive had to do with the drones.

	09-06-2004 10:05									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

If needed, I could serve as another neutral mod. Since I have very little advanced knowledge of the game (the crawler stuff is way over my head - I don't even have a working copy anymore), I'd just help make important decisions, keep everyone civil, etc. I'm already doing the same for a similar Civ3 Game.

	09-06-2004 10:28									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Unification through attrition/inactivity is nonsense. Since perma-pacts are by definition not allowed (no co-op victory), then the question of "who has the rightful claim to swallow the inactive faction?" has no answer.

	09-06-2004 12:31									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

You know, a lot of these rules seem talored to correcting "problems" in this ACDG...

And, in my experiences, many of these problems were only experienced by 1 faction Maniac

	09-06-2004 12:36									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

That aside, its going to be pretty impossible to enforce some of these rules.
For example, the unification rule: It doesn't have to be officially announced. Sharing of all information can easily occur and if a faction is off-forum....Then it is completly impossible.
Same thing with the no-ambassadors rule.

And again, the rules seem, at least to me, to be geared to correct problems that have cost certain factions in this game dearly. I'd just remind everyone that the next game *isn't* this game.
And, if people decide to be as American as they were in the last game (playing semantics over and over again), the more rules we have the more problems it makes.

	09-06-2004 13:10									#8
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Well, unification would be pretty stupid, if we are going with the options listed above.

quote: One for All: Allow Cooperative Victory. NO

Why would you chose to unify with another faction if you knew that you couldn't win anyway?

	09-06-2004 13:16									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

*cough*me faction leader *cough* Faction leaders are internal matters for each faction. We will hold elections for leader when the game starts. I haven`t expressed any ambition for leadership amongst Gaians except for being forum moderator. And I agree about stripping Tasss of powers.

	09-06-2004 15:17									#10
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

So do I

Let's get this game started PLEASE. We have everything decided.

And the usual mod rules should be applied - anyone that asks to be a mod is never suitable to be a mod

-jam

	09-06-2004 15:36									#11
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

In CMN terms, yes.

	09-06-2004 16:49									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Jamski So do I Let's get this game started PLEASE. We have everything decided. -jam

Gladly, if some silly objections to polled option implementation are withdrawn.

* MrWhereItsAt looks at Jamski

	09-06-2004 17:37									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

* Jamski looks at the votes*

Only 4 people want to fiddle around with changed alpha.txts. That's only just enough to play the turns for each faction - and what if two of these willing hamsters are on the SAME team?

-Jam

	09-06-2004 18:10									#14
	Put an end to popups!

Add one more . That poll is all messed up.

	09-06-2004 19:19									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Gradually... losing.... desire... to... play...

	09-06-2004 19:41									#16
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Kody You know that's wrong, but won't admit it. Just the fact the other faction doesn't have any active players makes it too easy to be abused. It means it's a matter of who can woo the last player in the faction the best. Or if there isn't any real player, who can shout most loudly about why the faction should unify with them.

I proposed that several weeks ago as I didn't see any other solution back then. However in the meantime you've created Codicil. So now we could just turn inactive factions into an AI I guess.
Should I edit my post to reflect this, everyone?

quote: Unification via lack of activity has all the bad attributes of a normal unification. Only even more unbalanced than a normal perm-pact/unification since you'll end up with complete control of said faction and you don't have to go through 3 months of cultivating diplomancy like the Hive had to do with the drones.

Do you mean the Drones and Hive have unified officially?

quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar And again, the rules seem, at least to me, to be geared to correct problems that have cost certain factions in this game dearly. I'd just remind everyone that the next game *isn't* this game.

AFAIK a majority, not just me or CPU, seems to agree with no co-ops, reduced chopper power, etc...

quote: For example, the unification rule: It doesn't have to be officially announced. Sharing of all information can easily occur and if a faction is off-forum....Then it is completly impossible.

That's why it's unfair if factions do all their important planning on fora other than Apolyton. Because CyCon and PUT didn't use any fora besides Apolyton and thus we joined each other's forum here, the Hive was immediately aware of our unification. Hive and Drones could keep it a secret though by moving to another forum, which of course gave them a huge advantage in diplomacy.

quote: Originally posted by obstructor *cough*me faction leader *cough* Faction leaders are internal matters for each faction. We will hold elections for leader when the game starts. I haven`t expressed any ambition for leadership amongst Gaians except for being forum moderator. And I agree about stripping Tasss of powers.

With faction leader I meant faction moderator. I'll edit it.

	09-06-2004 20:16									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I agree with others in opposing unification in any circumstances. If a team were to become inactive, Maniac's suggestion that it could be turned into an AI sounds good to me. Or it would have to resign I guess.

As for all factions do whatever things where, I do not feel it is important since coop victory is not allowed anyway.

	09-06-2004 21:18									#18
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'll be the mod for the Spartan private forums.

	09-06-2004 21:21									#19
	Suffering from ads?

You trying to start a fashion of self appointing forum mods Skanky?

	09-06-2004 21:23									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I'm volunteering. I also mentioned it back when the Spartans first formed and no-one objected to it then.

	09-06-2004 21:50									#21
	Got spare money?

quote: Hive and Drones could keep it a secret though by moving to another forum, which of course gave them a huge advantage in diplomacy.

The Hive and Drones never really unified. Rather an increasing trust developed over an 8 month period. It was really hard work for me during the first 3-4 months, the good thing about it was I never had to be evasive.

Opposed to the University/Cycon relationship which seemed to spring up over 2 days into a full unification. If the game wasn't already heavily in our favour I think people would have argued. However, that unification was encouraged (even though it was joked about), because it at least gave you a fighting chance. If you and the university hadn't unified you wouldn't have gotten MMI in time to defend yourselves.

	09-06-2004 21:57									#22
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Remember Skanky - anyone that asks to be a mod... should never be made one

I think Ming said that

-Jam

	09-06-2004 21:58									#23
	Put an end to popups!

* Illuminatus supports Skanky

	09-06-2004 22:02									#24
	Remove this text

Anyone that states "anyone that asks to be a mod... should never be made one" in an effort to named a mod themselves should definately not be a mod.

Thanks Obs.

	09-06-2004 22:12									#25
	Put an end to popups!

Anyone that states "Anyone that states "anyone that asks to be a mod... should never be made one" in an effort to named a mod themselves should definately not be a mod" in an effort to named a mod themselves should definitely not be a mod.

-Jam

	09-06-2004 22:14									#26
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Which is why there won't be a mod for the next game

	09-06-2004 22:23									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Anyone who overuses ctrl-c and ctrl-v in an effort to name themselves mod should really definately not be a mod.

	09-06-2004 22:29									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Anyone who makes spelling errors and bolds them on top of that should really definitely certainly not be made a mod.

	09-06-2004 22:32									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Stop this! There will poll of mods in every faction anyway. So save your breaths

	09-06-2004 22:34									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Anyone who makes spelling errors and bolds them on top of that should really definitely certainly not be made a mod.

Good luck finding anyone who fits that strict criteria.