09-06-2004 23:12									#1
	Our "war" with GCA and what to do about it Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

During the play of the save last night, we had noticed that GCA was at war with us, because the peace had run it's 20 turn cycle and was not renewed.

THis has given us a WW bonus, which we very much might need in the coming turns with the FP strikes. If GWT doesn't attack us on our turn of landing, then we will be declaring against them, when we build the beach head city and attack their FP the turn after (D-day+1).

The thing is, D-day is 7 turns (6 from this next save to come) from the breaking of the peace. If we follow the rules that we have more or less agreeded to, we have to give GCA peace in 5 turns time.

So, How can we stall to keep this "war" going??

Lets have some suggestions, please.

E_T

	09-06-2004 23:14									#2
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Also, while we are at it, we also need to think about stalling any lux trades against GWT, when we get Navigation. THEY WILL KNOW that we have that tech, because they will be able to trade Luxes and resourses.

E_T

	09-06-2004 23:57									#3
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ET, you can keep the war going on by starting negotiations, for what I don't know, we just have to come up with something.

Aidun

	10-06-2004 00:01									#4
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I want to add this: I haven't kept track of it, but there must be something they did that we don't like, or whatever. Make the fly as big as an elephant and start making a problem of it, and you have your argument.

Aidun

	10-06-2004 00:03									#5
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As far as I'm concerned, this new state of Faux war is due to an unfortunate game mechanic (peace treaty not renewed = back to war) and for us to seek a way of staying at war purely for WW benifit is an exploit. It's just wrong.

I say we offer GCA peace, explaining the situation. If they reject it and WANT the state of war, well, fine by us I guess.

-Arrian

	10-06-2004 00:05									#6
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I agree with Arrian. Only let GCA offer the peace. If they don't notice the state of war it's their bad.

	10-06-2004 00:06									#7
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To clarify my position above, I believe it would be the height of hypocrisy for us to seek to keep this faux war going for WW benifit when we screamed bloody murder about the last faux war because it was hurting us with WW, and forced GCA to give us peace via the game moderator.

I think we were right to demand peace then, because of GCA's teleportation, but I think we would be wrong to abuse the expiration of the peace treaty now.

-Arrian

	10-06-2004 00:10									#8
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What could be funny is that GCA might have noticed but thought that we declared war on them!

	10-06-2004 00:32									#9
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Yep. I was just thinking that.

-Arrian

	10-06-2004 00:34									#10
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One thing that we have to be certain about, it that we take care of 2 of our cities (the third will have a Marketplace finished next turn) before we accept the peace.

IF NOT, we will have civil Disorder in BOTH Apolyton Prime (building HG) AND Dominus (building Horseman for the strike). Both are going to be needed, very soon and CAN NOT be delayed.

If they have a problems with it, then THEY need to replay that turn, IMHO.

E_T

	10-06-2004 00:46									#11
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I say what's done is done, but we should immediately offer peace to GCA, and perhaps post something in the UN about it (explaining it was not our intention to renew the war, and it appears that the peace treaty simply expired on us).

-Arrian

	10-06-2004 01:16									#12
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Why should we be the ones "offering" peace? Why not have them make the "offer"? In fact, don't bring it up at all. It up to them to notice and for them to offer peace. Screw them. We don't owe them jack!

	10-06-2004 01:31									#13
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we should offer them peace because that way we control when we switch AP and Dominus's WF back to its "pre-war" setting. If we accept a GCA offer of peace, I believe we'll get disorder at the start of the turn.

So, simple. We keep quiet, if GCA mentions it, we say ok, no problem, and we offer them peace accepted. C'est simple.

-MZ

	10-06-2004 02:05									#14
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I think we should mention it. The only reason you are advocating the "keep quiet, but make peace if GCA brings it up" approach is that it helps us via positive WW.

-Arrian

	10-06-2004 03:15									#15
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Personally, a few turns of POSITIVE WW would counterbalance all of those turns of Negative WW that GCA had subjected us to.

Besides, it would equilly counterbalance any Negative WW that we might get from this upcoming strike....

To me, the timing is almost perfect.....

Maybe we can get CGN to gift us Washington, to make it more real....

E_T

	10-06-2004 05:43									#16
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I think basically that BF is right, we don't owe them jack. It's their responsibility to check their diplomacy turn after turn and ensure that it is in order, and if not, to inform the respective team or UN what the problem is. We have absolutely no reason to correct GCA for their mistakes.

If this ever happened to us, I truly doubt we'd have the nerve to ask for a replay of the turn if we had failed to notice it when it happened.

	10-06-2004 06:25									#17
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It sucks for them, and if it was any other team, we would try to make things right. There has just been too much crap going on to even lift a finger to help those bastards.

	10-06-2004 06:32									#18
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It's a sad state of affairs when I agree with asleep, MZ, and others, (edit: That didn't come out quite right. I mean when I agree with their sentiment here) but indeed, we don't owe them a damn after the way they jerked us around.

	10-06-2004 06:34									#19
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Hmmmm, I just realized that GCA also had done their peace with CFC, around the same time, if not the same turn.

I hope they get hit with WW from both....

E_T

	10-06-2004 06:58									#20
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Ironically, they may not even want peace. They fought so hard to stay at war with us before claiming it was principle and that "they'd always be at war with us even if it says peace in the game" and such. Now that the war is back, we'll see if it was really principle or just convenient to screw us over with WW.


Mention it (explain the peace run out), offer them peace, and if they don't accept it immediately then don't worry about it. Don't make a big stink over it or keep offering it every turn or anything.

	10-06-2004 08:11									#21
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I vote wait & see.

GCA screwed up.
If they want peace then let them ask us first.

We accept peace when they offer it.

	10-06-2004 08:21									#22
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I agree with BF. Let them check that we are at war with them. If they don't notice, it's their fault.

	10-06-2004 09:13									#23
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To GCA I say:

	10-06-2004 09:25									#24
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I second that

	10-06-2004 10:33									#25
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Wait and See. Let them ask for it first.

--Togas

	10-06-2004 11:54									#26
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quote: What could be funny is that GCA might have noticed but thought that we declared war on them

I do suppose they (experienced as they are) can tell the difference.

quote: One thing that we have to be certain about, it that we take care of 2 of our cities (the third will have a Marketplace finished next turn) before we accept the peace.

If we accept peace they offer - do we lose the WW bonus immediately? Or is it delayed one turn? (It's a 1-turn delay with city growth, isn't it?)

quote: Why should we be the ones "offering" peace? Why not have them make the "offer"?

Good point. However, I think we should accept it.

Also, I think that our FAM needs to send them a little message asking why they have declared war on us. In a friendly manner, though!
It's all about keeping relations up and thus giving them less clues to suspect a strike from us. When we strike, then we'll have screwed them. If our strike fails, the few turns of WW bonus won't help us anyway.

Here is what I propose:

• Our FAM sends a friendly message asking for an explanation;
  
• They'll want to offer peace to us;
  
• We say: fine, but let us adjust our cities first;
  
• We adjust our cities;
  
• They must offer peace a second time;
  
• We accept the peace.
  

	10-06-2004 12:05									#27
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Of course I agree with accpeting the peace offer from GCA or even offering it to them once they bring it up; either way I'm fine with. I just don't think it's our responsibility to alert them of this issue.

	10-06-2004 13:19									#28
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I would like us to follow BigFurryMonster's proposal.

	10-06-2004 23:48									#29
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I like BFM's proposal. It's fair and honest.

	11-06-2004 00:17									#30
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Folks, this is a WAR GAME. And in RL anything not BANNED by the rules of engagement is permissible.

And in this game the only relevant rule of engagement is:

If a state of war exists in game, in which it is not prossible within a reasonable number of turns (5 I believe), and if one party to the faux war offers peace accepted, the other party to the faux war must accept.

To comply with the rules of engagement, we need to be prepared to accept their peace offering when and if made. That is unless it slips until we are within 5 turns of Navigation and it becomes "possible" to execute the war.

We are under no obligation to do any more than this.

The "Fair and Honest" doctrine does not compute.

Now having said that trying to appear fair and honest, may enhance our evil plans.