18-06-2004 02:08									#1
	Turn 214: 990 AD Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Start
- RP sends 100 gold + WM. accepted. Send our own WM in return. Can't send horses.

- EotS builds rifle. Starts rifle.

- Cyclone builds worker, starts worker.

- Bolderberg builds university. starts galleon. I wonder if a CH would get us to a steady 40 spt (it is at 41 spt before waste, without WLTKD or CH). will get irr to get a +fpt, you never know when the food surplus comes in handy

- D-ville builds galleon. Starts Galleon

- Tempest builds rifle. starts rifle.

- Tornado builds rifle. Starts galleon.

- Arashi builds rifle. Starts rifle

- SS builds worker. Starts worker.

- OG builds factory. Starts galleon.

- WW builds aqua. Starts market.

- WoC builds market. Starts hospital. Will get into WLTKD without Cathedral, so let's build that after the hospital, to get the +6 spt.

- 4277 gold, 80%, 756 bpt, -156 gpt. (combustion in 2 turns, 2381/3840 saved) tech cost

calculations
Elipolis / Inchon: Inchon is not supposed to get a factory. So let's not waste any shields on the aqua either. All production tiles given to Eli. that is 13 spt after waste (should get to 25 spt at least afterwards, normally 30 spt with PS, and possibly hospital).
currently, 120 shields are collected, and we need to get to 227 to get the factory in 1 turn.
That is:
- 120 + 2 knights = 154
- shortrush to hospital = 160 (24 gold)
- + 4 knights = 228
- + 1 turn = 241 shields. One shield loss... not too bad
So let's do this, it helps us from the obsolete knights, while getting a factory done 11 turns faster.

- destroyers are coming! All galleons timed to end in 2 turns will automatically upgrade to transports. This messes shields up, of course...
Bolderberg is one case which we can help: we've got 2 foresting spots left. Use those, and shortrush a settler (40 gold), gives a galleon next turn, after which we can build destroyers.

forces
(- 8 spear, 27 pikes, 19 knights, 8 cat, 12 MI, 2 galley)
- 43 workers
- 17 rifle (+4/turn)
- 12 galleon (+2.33/turn)

Generals, I need an estimate on how many transports are going to be needed, to avoid building too many galleons!

Moves
In general, the specific worker moves are not covered anymore, it gets too tedious. Only important stuff is mentioned.

- mine on Monsoon 3

- WoC needs one forest for a 1-turn cathedral. In the mean time, it can rush the hospital a little. it will need something like 35 rushed shields next turn, precise amount unclear as it's not in WLTKD yet (next turn it will be, before production). Just chopping one forest, next turn we can decide to chop more, shortrush, or spend a knight (I like the last option best).
Foresting on WoC 77.

- Elipolis 8 irr.

- irr on OG 63

- irr on Bolderberg 99, 6. Building food reserve to be able to run -4 fpt, +40 spt later on. (later discovered that I did 6 too fast: should have been after foresting, not before. one worker turn lost)

- foresting on Bolderberg 6, 3.

- foresting on Typhoon 69

-starting foresting on Blizzard 4, 7

- one worker added to Sufa, Typhoon, WW. This last one might be a mistake, as it gets WW out of WLTKD. I'm counting on it not having an effect (can lose an additional 2 spt to waste)

- in total 6 knights disband in Elipolis. places are filled with new rifles, and one from EotS.

- our Southern most galley moves 444. all fog uncovered. returns home.
- galleon present at Eli auto-moves to Inchoff scouting pos. (4 turns)
- New Galleon from Blizzard auo-moves towards scouting pos near Hurricane (2 turns)
- new Galleon from D-ville auto moves to Inchoff (1 turns).
- second new Galleon from D-ville auto moves to Inchoff (3 turns).
- third new Galleon from D-ville auto moves to Inchoff (5 turns).
- Galleon present at Inchoff forts. generals, this one also needs a destination!

workforce shuffles
- Cyclone set back to ideal pattern (needs this every turn).
- SS set to ideal pattern

- Inchon gives all production tiles given to Eli. takes coast instead.

- OG mvoes from coast to (now irr) plain.

- WoC moves back onto mountain instead of coast.

- Inchoff takes grass instead of mountain

- D-ville takes mountain instead of coast (44 spt. not ideal, but preparation for destroyers)


Current Builds
long term plans for our cities

Eli : factory in 1
Inchon : aqua in 46
WoC : hospital in 3. cathedral or PS next
Inchoff : factory in 13(might need rushing, similar to Eli this turn)
D-ville : galleon in 2(prebuild for destroyer)
Santa Ana : rifle in 1
Blizzard : galleon in 1
Monsoon : rifle in 1
Arashi : rifle in 2
WW : market in 5
Tempest : rifle in 1
SS: worker in 2
Hurricane : rifle in 1
OG : galleon in 3 (prebuild for destroyer)
EotS : rifle in 1
Bolderberg : galleon in 1
Cyclone: worker in 1
Tornado : galleon in 3 (will go down next turn) (prebuild for destroyer)
Typhoon : hospital in 2. harbor next
Sufa : market in 98

Other

- 4213 gold, 80%, 761 bpt, -143 gpt. Should be able to set slider to 70% next turn (it will be very close, might need 1 or 2 workers added to cities to achieve this)

- Lego discovered Steel. They're at 4-turn tech pace, so 12 turns before they get marines. (turn 225 at the earliest that we can be attacked!)

- in F11, we're #3 in production at 633 Megatons. (last turn 607).

Next Turn

- giving a tile from Typhoon to Tornado
- WoC forested and rushed to end hospital in 1 turn.
- foresting on Blizzard 4, 7
- free workers need to be added to WW (possibly 4), Inchoff(3). no priority for as long as we're researching combustion.
- prepare everything for combustion (destroyer builds where possible)

DeepO

	18-06-2004 02:37									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

yikes

did Vox send Communism, or is that next turn?

A thought.

What if the plan of lego/vox was to attack us ~230. Maybe they're using the lux plan as a way for Vox to spy on us, ie, we won't break that agreement. The way the turns are set up means that their information will be up to date... Of course, if lego declares war with us,we declare war on their vassals, I would think that would be understood...

	18-06-2004 03:32									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

What is the value of Lego declaring war on us? Even if they know we are planning an attack, they are better off just preparing a defense.

	18-06-2004 03:52									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

we would get a happiness boost as well, so Lego are effectively shooting themselves in the foot. I would have thought they would aim at a navel picket of our island

	18-06-2004 04:10									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Vox would send communism next turn, yes. The deal was arranged after they sent theirs.

lux plan and war: nowhere was said that we have given Vox a NAP. If we feel the need to attack them, even in the middle of a lux trade, so be it. It is true that their position to spy on us is ideal for Lego, not only to spy on us, but also to spy on GoW. However, we can't declare war on them just yet, to avoid it. We should seriously consider it once we're getting ready for offense, though.

Does anybody know if it is possible to plant a spy, and know the battle plans while at war? Otherwise, the moment we know someone has espionage, we need to dig out all spies (plant some of our own, perhaps), and declare war. No matter the cost in happiness.

DeepO

	18-06-2004 04:13									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

CH, can you ask to GoW if they want combustion the moment we discover it, or are willing to wait until Lego discovers it, to avoid them getting the 10% devaluation? (~380 beakers, which is significant) We would go for the next tech anyway, so they don't need it right now.

BTW, has there been any response yet from MZ on last message? It was rather significant, I would say!

DeepO

	18-06-2004 05:06									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

you can't plant a spy if your embassy is not functioning, ie, at war. a limitation imho, bad, of the system.

	18-06-2004 14:35									#8
	Got spare money?

can you detect a spy when at war? And does anyone have experience with spies in PBEMs?

things I would be interested in:
- is there a certain way, no matter the cost, to get a spy in Lego the turn we attack, or one turn beforehand?
- Can we get battleplans for certain, no matter the cost (seeing that RP can't spy for us)
- can we prevent Lego from getting our battle plans, e.g. by detecting a possible spy (is this procedure guaranteed to succeed?)
- how are we going to deal with possible Vox spies: declare war?
- what is the cost of all this, how much money do we have to set aside for perfect information? This can be split between us and GoW, as they too will benefit from any info we can find
- How are we going to get espionage before invading? RP can't do it at 40-turn pace, but can we steal the tech from e.g. Vox, and how much does this cost?

The reason I'm so interested in spies is that is the only way of deciding which city to attack, when we're threatening 3 of them. RP can't inspect cities for us.
DeepO