18-06-2004 18:11									#1
	Putin reveals intelligence confirming Saddam planned attack on America Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle....storyID=5457016

ASTANA (Reuters) - Russia warned the United States on several occasions that Iraq's Saddam Hussein planned "terrorist attacks" on its soil, President Vladimir Putin said Friday.
"After the events of September 11, 2001, and before the start of the military operation in Iraq, Russian special services several times received such information and passed it on to their American colleagues," he told reporters.

The Kremlin leader, who was speaking in the Kazakh capital, said Russian intelligence services had many times received information that Saddam's special forces were preparing terrorist attacks in the United States "and beyond its borders on American military and civilian targets."

"This information was conveyed to our American colleagues," he said. He added that Russian intelligence had no proof that Saddam agents had been involved in any particular attack.

Russia had diplomatic relations with Saddam's Iraq and opposed the U.S.-led military offensive that toppled him.

Putin's comments come after President Bush was forced to defend his charge that there had been links between Saddam and al Qaeda that partly justified the U.S.-led invasion.

	18-06-2004 18:18									#2
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A strange blessing from "the Lord God"

	18-06-2004 18:20									#3
	Re: Putin reveals intelligence confirming Saddam planned attack on America Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Lincoln He added that Russian intelligence had no proof that Saddam agents had been involved in any particular attack.

Says it all. Hot air, no substance, no proof, just hearsay.

	18-06-2004 18:20									#4
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Very interesting, it follows through on a comment I made yesterday on another thread about protected intel sources.

	18-06-2004 18:29									#5
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All hail the Lord God Putin!

	18-06-2004 18:35									#6
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I'm sure this is all just another Bush conspiracy to deceive the world and kill innocent people... Bush is obviously behind this lie. In some way or in some manner it MUST be his fault!

	18-06-2004 18:38									#7
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The BBC is confirming this now. It must have something to do with the oil interests in Texas. Yeah, that's what it is...

	18-06-2004 18:38									#8
	Re: Re: Putin reveals intelligence confirming Saddam planned attack on America Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Cruddy Says it all. Hot air, no substance, no proof, just hearsay.

"Russian intelligence services had many times received information that Saddam's special forces were preparing terrorist attacks in the United States "and beyond its borders on American military and civilian targets."


Were preparing, but had not yet carried out. How is this hearsay.

As for proof, Putin doesnt say what the evidence was, or what was passed to Washington. Will be interesting to hear what it was.

	18-06-2004 19:56									#9
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quote: Were preparing, but had not yet carried out. How is this hearsay.

Ummmmm.....
Isn't this:

quote: As for proof, Putin doesnt say what the evidence was, or what was passed to Washington.

What makes it hearsay?

	18-06-2004 19:59									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko Ummmmm..... Isn't this: What makes it hearsay?

oh well I suppose it is HEARSAY when someone here quotes it. Thats true, since we have no idea what actual evidence there was.

I presume what Russian Intel passed on the the US was NOT hearsay. But what it was, we dont know yet. I look forward to learning.

Is anyone suggesting that Putin is lying NOW in saying this? Or that what Russia passed to the US prewar was made up out of whole cloth. Possible, I suppose.

	18-06-2004 20:04									#11
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All of the sudden Putin becomes another cheerleader for the Republicans, and bam, everyone on the right keeps worshipping the Lord God Putin.

I think that makes Comrade Tassadar a trend setter.

	18-06-2004 20:05									#12
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Hearsay is when you relate second hand information:

"Sophie told me that she saw Mommy kissing Santa Claus."

Which is a far cry from:

"I saw Mommy kissing Santa Claus."

Putin is saying that he has the evidence, it has been forwarded to Washington, but he's not going into details as to what that evidence is. That is not hearsay.

As to whether the evidence is hearsay, well, we'll just have to see.

	18-06-2004 20:15									#13
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well without a doubt the Russians were just blindly accepting reports from Ahmed Chalabi and other biased Iraqi exiles, and were accepting them without question cause the KGB (or whatever Yeltsin renamed it - federal something?) is filled with pro-Likud neocons who were eager for a chance to dominate the middle east, or something like that.

	18-06-2004 20:19									#14
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We probably won't see for another twenty years -- or until the source is safely dead.

	18-06-2004 20:29									#15
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Starting with Yeltsin the leadership of Russia seems to have acquired the habit of telling us everything we wanted to hear. I'm not certain that they've always told us the truth.

	18-06-2004 20:39									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Starting with Yeltsin the leadership of Russia seems to have acquired the habit of telling us everything we wanted to hear. I'm not certain that they've always told us the truth.

somehow "yes, yes, we really are building a democracy, and no, Im not an alcoholic" is not quite the same as "we have a mole inside Iraqi Intell who says theyre planning attacks on the US"

Do you have any evidence that the Russians have lied to us on a an intelligence matter?

	18-06-2004 20:42									#17
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A small favor to Bush which doesn't cost anything. Immideatly discredited.

	18-06-2004 20:53									#18
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Imagine how much evil one could do just by telling people what they wanted to hear. It boggles the mind.

	18-06-2004 20:57									#19
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark somehow "yes, yes, we really are building a democracy, and no, Im not an alcoholic" is not quite the same as "we have a mole inside Iraqi Intell who says theyre planning attacks on the US" Do you have any evidence that the Russians have lied to us on a an intelligence matter?

Is there any evidence that they told the truth? Hussein is in no position to punish a traitor right now. Furthermore I can think of at least one western government which would be more than ecstatically happy to provide asylum and a cushy future to said mole if he were to surface right about now. and spill his guts in public.

	18-06-2004 21:06									#20
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark somehow "yes, yes, we really are building a democracy, and no, Im not an alcoholic"

Did he actually say that? He's Russian. It's an obvious lie.

	18-06-2004 21:24									#21
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Interesting news.

I'm not really interested by the "evidence" as long as we have no idea what that is*

However, I am interested in knowing why Putin feels he should help Bush, after opposing him so clearly on the Iraqi issue. Is there multilateral negociation cycle coming before the next election? Does Putin wager on Bush, and tries to help him get reelected?




*If there is actual evidence of Iraqi involvement in terrorist preparations, we'll hear about it soon. OTOH, it may very well be something ordinary that is spun as "preparing terrorist attacks".
Among the ordinary, there could have been plans to attack the US in case of war, there could have been listings of American interests in the area, with a description of the security, or there could have been records where some officials refer to the US as the enemy.
This would be a far cry from starting an unprovoked terror campaign in the US.

	18-06-2004 21:27									#22
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I wonder how much $$$ it took Chimpy and Rummy to buy off Putin.

	18-06-2004 21:27									#23
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Putin is known to sporadically throw a bone to Bush. It helps him not having the Americans bringing up human rights issues in Chechnea.

	18-06-2004 21:40									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Is there any evidence that they told the truth? Hussein is in no position to punish a traitor right now. Furthermore I can think of at least one western government which would be more than ecstatically happy to provide asylum and a cushy future to said mole if he were to surface right about now. and spill his guts in public.

1. Well lets see, they are an ally in the WOT, they have a massive intelligence agency, their past activity in Iraq would lead one to beleive they had extensive assets inside the Iraqi govt. Until I see evidence that they were lying my working hypothesis is going to be that they told the truth.

2. Even if they were lying, that Bush relied on them would seem "exculpatory" Especially if what they passed included more detailed info on sources.

3. So far the motivations for lying go as follows


A. They were doing Bush a favor for not speaking out on Chechnya ("yeah, who cares about Georgia, or NATO expansion into the Baltics, as long as you dont talk about Chechnya we're happy")
B. They want a privileged position in Iraq now
C. They were trying to get us into Iraq to tie us down - a variant on "Iran got us into Iraq"

Anything im missing?

The efforts to deny the significance of this are quite valiant.

	18-06-2004 21:46									#25
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BTW is John Kerry going to publicly call Putin a liar?
Is Robin Cook going to?
Is Jacque Chirac going to?
Is Joska Fischer going to?

Quible as you will, this is huge.

	18-06-2004 21:48									#26
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As expected, the liberals will ignore this info since it supports Bush's claim that Iraq was a threat.

	18-06-2004 21:51									#27
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Even if the intelligence is true, that Saddam had plans to attack the US. So what?

	18-06-2004 21:53									#28
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat As expected, the liberals will ignore this info since it supports Bush's claim that Iraq was a threat.

Most evidence shows Bush is a pathological liar. this dowsn't neutalize the tons of evidence that shows Chimpy lied.

	18-06-2004 21:58									#29
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It fits in with Bush's stated intention to preempt terrorists acts when the US is a target. Or should we wait until they send a nuke suitcase to LA before responding?

	18-06-2004 22:02									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Most evidence shows Bush is a pathological liar. this dowsn't neutalize the tons of evidence that shows Chimpy lied.

There is also plenty of evidence that shows a patholigical hatred for Bush from the left regardless of what he does.