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I have to say that I am a little concerned about the implication that genuine hate threads are OK, but spoof ones are not.
Seems a bit arse about face to me. Maybe the technique of (excuse crap Latin and I await correction) "redacto ad absurdum" is not well understood here.
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i'll repeat something i posted in the OT, with an addition
If you REALLY have a problem with people posting hate or with how we enforce the rules we have set, then what you should do is ACT about it
And action in this case is to report the problem to the moderators of the forums, instead of waiting from them to check every single of the hundreds of messages that get posted here every day.
We often say that this is a privately owned forum and the rules are set by the owners. This doesnt mean that you should wait everything from us though. If you want a better forum, do something about it
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Well Mark closed my thread I started to get to the bottom of it all in off topic. What ever happened to you saying you leave off topic to Ming?
So from the short poll, before it was closed by the moderator who leaves off topic to Ming, we found out it was ok to bash arabs and homosexuals, and that God should be involved.
Hmm, maybe I should do what a certain person did to sidgames and report them to netnanny and the like. Afterall, certain forms of hate are tolerated and even encouraged here (by inaction against and defending them by saying you have gotten no complaints... thats cause everyone on the board is either a bigot or doesn't care unless it is them on the other end) while others are thought to be wrong... only because they aren't serious.
While Mark, you can reply with the fact that this is a private site, I can reply with the fact that you say hate isn't tolerated here. Which doesn't make me look bad as I'm not the one being hypocritical about them.
I'll follow your suggestion... I'm going down the first page of off topic and coming back here and reporting all hate post. I would love to see your response, as many of these people believe in their views.
Cheers
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Oh yes, Natan's contributions. I've chewed him up and spat him out on on previous occasions. I missed that particular thread, though.
Still, what do I know? I'm a dumbass, I'm gullible, I'm a moron and I neglect my daughter.
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Ted
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Hi!
My name is Ted!
I'm kind of new here. And I just saw this thread!
Could you tell me about it? Would you help me around it?
I think you are fun. And I like the way you think in rhymes. But it's unfair of you to act in such a way as to make others think. Very unfair. Because it's not fun to think when you're new.
When you're new, you want to have fun. And as Ted, I can't have fun if I can't be Hi!
So would you all help me out and point me to the door to the real world?
Thanks!
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<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by winston on 02-02-2001 07:01 PM</font>
Aw, so many nice, sensitive and considerate guys in one thread. Altruistic as well. Just look at their use of the English language. This beaute should go in the archives for sure.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
If you want to take a pop, don't hide behind theatrical posturing. Just go for it.
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:13
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Laz, well said, everything. Don't let em get you down.
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Laz, I could care less if my "allies" are offended. Those that are just shows to me that they accept the other forms of hate on these forums, just not mine. And thats only because my jokes were about our enemy in ww2. The only person I care to have support me, does support me. If I keep seeing hate threads against other minoritys, I'm going to keep targeting the ones which get you all riled up. Since it shows how much of hypocrits you all are.
I can bash arabs here and its ok... same with gays... I can make a few other ethic slurs here as well and its ok. But bash the jews and its a no no. Man, not only did you guys proves your the hypocrits of hate, but you even went so fart as to basically highlight it.
Oh yeah, and guys... Kitty and I have a long history of ****ing with each other. Neither of us mean a thing we say. She's called me a pedofile on many occasions, just not here... and I've called her many horrible things. We get our kicks out of it. You guys are just to thick to realize obvious things.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Captain Obvious (edited February 03, 2001).]</font>
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"Hypocrite" my ****ing arse. I hate it all. I can't stand Speer's techno-fascism. I couldn't stand Jeszenka's or CivNation's raging homophobia. I can't stick Luk's praising of Pinochet. Dookie's US bashing drives me to distraction no matter what his motives are.
I've come back at it all, time and time again. The only reason I missed the threads you highlighted is because I don't have much free time and read few threads. I seem to have spent half my time here railing against them- but it's working. How many of the names above are still regulars here? Point your arse to the archives and look for yourself. When another **** comes on and starts posting another prime serving of racist crap, whatever their motives, they get treated the same. If you act like a ****, expect to get called one whichever brand of twattery you choose.
Make up your mind. Are you the white knight of universal love or are you a happy troll? Sitting on the fence will just force splinters up your crack. If you wanted to know where I stand, I'm an irascible old bastard who gets into fights partly out of protective instincts and partly because I just plain enjoy them.
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Taurus
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Haifa, Israel
Oct 2000
time: 07:13
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First of all, I'm a Jew, and I don't find genocide jokes offencive, as long as the person who tells them, doesn't really mean them (that's why you should add a comment after posting such a joke - something like: j/k).
About, the Hitler being a hero thing, I don't find that offencive either, but I find it stupid, because it ain't funny.
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>
Natan makes the lovely statement that all arabs are big mouthed.
Imran says a few choice words...
"Damn those evil Arabs who took in Jews, allowed them to live under Muslim states without persecution. Allowed them to have high status in Muslim governments, allowed them to live their lives.What do you mean they shouldn't be mad when it was realized that the Jews were basically planning a coup? Jews started the violence. Hell, The Arabs should have pushed them to Christian countries and let them rot! That is what we get for helping the bastards. Ungrateful ****s!"
"I'm saying the Jewish state of Israel should be killed. It is an illegal construct that should be deconstructed. If killing is needed for that to come about so be it." Advocating the murder of Jews here.
"Hell, every day I get more and more convinced that Hitler should have finished the job. I ain't joking. They ****ed over my fellow Muslims in Palestine by driving them out of their home. Then THEY act self rightous? **** that ****! Nuking Tel Aviv seems to be the only thing that can tell the world that these bastards won't get away with their crap!"
I'm glad I'm not living in Imrans twisted little views of the world.
Taurus makes a kind statement. "I say that Hitler got
himself the wrong target, he should killed all the Arabs and Muslims instead.
But that's what Israel is for, right?
We will do this job as it should be done!" I can feel the love, no hate coming from him.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
Natan's post was infact a normal one, because from his
expirience (and mine) he probably got the feeling that Arabs are mostly Big mouthed, the fact that he said "All arabs" was just to exaguarate which is done many times in a debate.
My post was just because I found that Imran was serious in his post (I saw no j/k or any smilies) and his post were not contributing to the debate, so I just wanted to show him how idiotic such post are, you would have understood that if you bothered to read the following sentences, which were in that same post:
"Imran, the only thing that is at the apropriate level as an answer to you calling for genocide is:"
"Happy Imran?
Two can play this stupid game."
As you can see it was just an answer to Imran, I believe that nobody thinks I really meant those things.
------------------
Proud member of the state of Israel.
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If I can draw some kind of line under this issue, it'll be by pointing out just what a no-win situation this is.
Occasionally, someone will post something racist, sexist or homophobic on Apolyton. How do you react?
If you ignore it, you get tarred as one who accepts such bigotry and are damned by inclusion with any who might conceivably support it. This is one reason why some feel Apolyton is a bigoted forum (a claim I heatedly refute, but that's not the issue here).
If you object only to the ones that really make you want to spit blood, you get called a hypocrite for failing to object to the others. By failing to remorselessly scan every thread for anything that might be considered offensive, you are accused of having double standards.
Finally, if you do kick back at every post that offends you, you get called a "dumbass" for including trollers in your retaliation.
So what do you do to keep people happy? Any suggestions?
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Lazarus & the Gimp (edited February 03, 2001).]</font>
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Ming
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I am deeply troubled reading through this thread, and all the related discussions on this subject.
I made a post at ACOL discussing this subject, and I see no reason to "reinvent the wheel", so here are excerpts from it. The reason why I'm not including my full response is that some of what I said isn't relevent to the discussion here:
"RC (Brian the Bug Master) has a disagreement with the moderation at Apolyton. He isn't the first, or will he be the last. I respect his opinion, even If I do think his analysis of the situation is
incorrect. Apolyton is not a breeding ground of hate. Does mild flaming occur... well yes, it's natural for that to happen when people discuss emotional issues. It even happen here...
Many people have been restricted for promoting hate, and many threads have been deleted. To suggest that Apolyton is a hate site and promotes hatred is a little extreme in my opinion.
If we were to delete or punish anybody that gets in a heated discussion, you would be the first to say that it's over moderation and that Apolyton is censoring free ideas. And don't say that you wouldn't, because you have in the past.
I think there is a very fine line that has to be walked when allowing the exchange of ideas.
I see a big difference between a religious right person saying that homosexuality is against his religion and believes that gays should repent and change their lifesyle, and that they are wrong in the eyes of god... vs, ALL GAYS SHOULD DIE OR BE LOCKED AWAY. The first is a opinion, and the second is just pure hate. When people expouse the elimination of some culture, race or religion, action is swift at Apolyton.
It will not be tolerated. On the other hand, disagreeing with a life style is no different than any other disagreement of opinions whether it is politics or discussing game strategy.
It's a very fine line that has to be walked if any type of discussion on emotional issues is to be allowed.
Now... is moderation perfect at Apolyton...
NO... how can anyone expect anything to be perfect. I don't read every word posted, that would be impossible.
Does mild flaming occur... yes it does.
We try the best we can to keep it to a minimum, and stop anything that gets out of hand.
At ACOL, you have a strong history and tradition of self moderation. At Apolyton, self moderation hasn't worked, so we have active moderation. The moderators and admin are trying their best to allow free discussion, but not allow hate.
While anybody is welcome to disagree or agree that we do a good job of it, believe me when I say our intent is stop hate threads and posts."
I don't really know what else I can say on this topic.
------------------
Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Ming (edited February 03, 2001).]</font>
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The moderation's fine here. There is a strong element of self-moderation too- an abundance of opinionated old gits sees to that.
Moderating a forum like Apolyton is a thankless task. You'll never, in a million years, succeed in keeping everyone happy. In other words, you'll always get people moaning at you. The only realistic way to handle it is to go with your gut instincts about what's right and what isn't. I get the impression that you are doing this already and I have no problem with it.
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Hey Laz, would you mind starting the thread you said you would start about this on ACOL? I'd like to follow the argument in stereo 
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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.
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You must be joking. ACOL is already turning into a slanging match over this. Unless someone starts taking a pop at me there I'm staying well away from it all. Let them sort it out between themselves.
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Oh great - now Resource Consumer is leaving ACOL and Apolyton.
Of course, I blame Lazarus the Wimp. I hope you're pleased with yourself.
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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.
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Fu<x>ck off Horsey Boy, what's Laz done wrong?
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<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Iain Lindley on 02-04-2001 06:47 PM</font>
Fu<x>ck off Horsey Boy, what's Laz done wrong?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
It just goes to yet again prove my theory that the so-called "straight" posters do far more harm than we so-called trolls ever do
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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.
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The use of "Anyway, I was joking" to excuse any piece of malignant crap is one that most people grow out of when hitting puberty, Imran.
If we give it any sort of acceptance, it means we can't ever say anything is unacceptable. Anyway, some things demand to be blown out of the water, whether the maker is joking or not.
...or have all of my responses so far been just a continuing joke? Meaning you're all a bunch of gullible buffoons? Good, isn't it?
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And the champ is back folks, and has come out swinging against the fly weight, Imran.
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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.
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03-02-2001 10:47
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