06-02-2001 05:45									#61
	Got spare money?

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</font>I even avoided the religous threads, as that wouldn't be fair to the hate-mongers to bag them there.

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Actually, religious threads (at least the ones I went to) lately have been very reasonable and enlightening. There is hope...

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</font>I see a big difference between a religious right person saying that homosexuality is against his religion... vs, ALL GAYS SHOULD DIE OR BE LOCKED AWAY. The first is a opinion, and the second is just pure hate. When people expouse the elimination of some culture, race or religion, action is swift at Apolyton.
It will not be tolerated. On the other hand, disagreeing with a life style is no different than any other disagreement of opinions whether it is politics or discussing game strategy.
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YEAH! That seems very reasonable - in fact, it should be a paradigm of moderatorship everywhere. I think it's tragic that many don't do this. Nobody thanked you? - now that sucks (and rather rude too). So, here we go... Yay Ming.
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Ted,
lol.
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As for the actual thread itself in question, - never read it, haven't got a clue on what people are saying here, and somehow, I am getting the feeling that I don't want to.

	08-02-2001 10:18									#62
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Ming.

"I am deeply troubled reading through this thread, and all the related discussions on this subject."

Don't be.

I make it that all sides of the debate are exactly equally pissed off with the moderation.

So you can smugly conclude that your numerous value judgments get the balance precicely right.

You can also reflect on the regular visits to this site of such diverse folk as ACOLKitty and, for the sake of an example, Roland.

God, even the Apolyton Prophet enjoyed coming here and stimulated an interested response.

I suspect ACOL achieves self moderation by playing host to a self selecting community which is just nowhere near as diverse.

OK, Second Lieutenant Obvious' succesful but pathetic attempt at attracting attention to himself was irksome. Daft to relegate the guy to the outer darkness though. OK, some Israeli posters - for reasons surely anyone can guess at - find it hard to describe their arab neighbours in loving terms. All the more reason to allow them the chance to re-discover the balance they most assuredly need right now from talking to folk who have a different slant on things. OK, homophobia exists. Somehow don't think ACOLKitty needs mercilessly protecting though. And I'd sure miss it if we lost the spice of her more acerbic and pithily expressed broadsides.

But s**t man, why am I saying this to you? This is a balance you have been weighing for a while.

Read the thread again. You're getting it right.

	07-02-2001 23:35									#63
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

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</font><font size=1>Originally posted by East Street Trader on 02-07-2001 12:18 PM</font>
I make it that all sides of the debate are exactly equally pissed off with the moderation.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>i think it was Klisthenis who said that if everyone disagrees with a law, then it's probably right

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<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>I suspect ACOL achieves self moderation by playing host to a self selecting community which is just nowhere near as diverse.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>i think your suspicion is correct, and i will add that i suspect that lots of people tend to forget that...


bottom line:
- do you have a specific example of hate thread? report it immediately to Ming.
- you dont believe that nothing can save us? leave is in our hell

	09-02-2001 01:40									#64
	Got spare money?

Mark, I reported several instances to you, as you've asked... they are in an above post, I believe on page one. Have you ignored these on purpose, or has it just been an oversite?

	09-02-2001 05:53									#65
	Get a bigger avatar today!

OK... let's look real carefully at the three "examples" you provided on page one.

Number one: A thread about Alan Greenspan...
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Posted by Sergeant Sheets:
Alan Greenspan. He's Jewish, so he knows how to get down and party, how to make money, tell jokes, talk for 48 hours straight, and cut diamonds. Get a German to do more than drink beer and shovel ****.

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By You:
No, he is a Jew.
We also know how to shovel ashes Sgt. Sheets.

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Sarge's comment is a little rude, and yes, a minor insult to germans, but mild at best. No worse than comments that the English can't cook
If anything, you are the one trying to make it worse with your reference. Hmmm, maybe you should be banned for that one

Number two: A thread titled why are the Russians such fools.
I tried really hard to find something bad. There have been many American bashing threads, Europe bashing threads, China Bashing threads... all usually based on a persons opinion that their country is better. Never is there a call to kill or eliminate them.
Here was the WORST I Could find in the thread.
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After all my reading in history, politics, etc. I just can't understand how the Russian people manage to consistently be so foolish and backward throughout their whole history.

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Talk about mild stuff. One person's opinion... no out pouring of hate and strife, just an opinion that the Russian people haven't done well with the resources they started with. This was the original post, and the following posts either supports good things the Russians have done, or the "foolish" things they have done. A very tame discussion with no real insults.

Number three:
I just reread that whole thread (four pages)... Yes, the quotes you used in your earlier post did appear.
The first page was pretty mild... actually very mild considering the fighting going on at the time. An emotional time for both sides.
By page two, the baiting really began. And that's where most of your quotes come from... Imran and Natan went at it hardcore. You did miss that Imran did say:
"Btw: There are some things that I'm not serious about in this thread... Guess them" While that doesn't excuse some of the the things Imran said, or the responese that came because of his posts... it shows that banter was in full steam. Most of the posts in the thread were reasonably rations discussions of the facts and issues.

Now, I remember that thread when it started... I do usually watch very carefully threads of this nature because of the potential of over heated emotions.
As I said, the first page was tame... I will admit that I got busy, and the thread continued without the viligence it deserved. If I had seen the posts your quoted at the time they appeared, I would have stepped in with the normal "chill" or this thread is toast comment... but, frankly, by the time I did read them, the point was long past. Maybe if somebody had sent an ICQ or PM while it was happening, It would have been stopped...

As I've always said, we try our best to watch over things in real time... but it isn't realistic to expect us to be watching every word typed 24/7.
When it is seen... we act. But we can't catch everything. Granted, many people have made my life easier by pointing out problems as they happen.

So... out of the three examples you raise, I'll agree with you that the third one was over the line and action should have been taken at that time. If it had been seen, action would have been taken.

The other two examples are a joke at best.

We will just have to strive to be better...
As MarkG said, if you see something you think is over the line, bring it to our attention as soon as you can so we can act on it.

Now stop your trolling... Again, moderation will never be perfect. So don't try to hold us to perfect standards

------------------
Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net

	09-02-2001 19:37									#66
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

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<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Ted on 02-02-2001 09:40 PM</font>
Hi!

My name is Ted!

I'm kind of new here. And I just saw this thread!
Could you tell me about it? Would you help me around it?

I think you are fun. And I like the way you think in rhymes. But it's unfair of you to act in such a way as to make others think. Very unfair. Because it's not fun to think when you're new.


When you're new, you want to have fun. And as Ted, I can't have fun if I can't be Hi!

So would you all help me out and point me to the door to the real world?

Thanks!

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Hi Ted.
This had the potential of being one of the better threads I've started.
Childish behavior flushed it into the sea.




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"It's In The Way That You Use It."

Tuatha De Danann Tribe
http://www.geocities.com/boann7/

	10-02-2001 11:21									#67
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

OH! I got a good one.

(I posted another one but it was bad enough that my post of it was deleted along with the original)

Here is the new one! Find the thread!

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<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>I don't know which is more dangerous,

A monkey with a loaded gun or a Mexican with driver license.
I wonder if Mexicans that drive are color blind because they sure cannot tell when the light switchs from green to red.

Cannot read or see yield signs and stop signs.


The local gov. should make it hard to obtaine a flea market driver license.

Can you git a permit from Cracker-Jacks?
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The trick is catching them before ming does.