24-06-2004 16:22									#1
	Turn 217: 1020 AD Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Starting this early. Couldn't find the RP discussion thread for the moment, but some comments:
- I intended in my message that they would receive Indus next turn, being the one after the one they were playing. It is completely according to plan, if they would count they would have seen it.
- horses for 5 gpt: fine by me. It's not the end of the world
- 8 conq's is a not exactly a lot. And they can fit on 1 transport too. I was hoping of at least 16... but that's okay. One idea is that they can move those transports close to Lego's coast much earlier then the invasion, and serve as advanced pickets, without the need for us to spend transports as scouts which we can better use to fill with marines and tanks

Oh, and Re: MZ's message on the production power of Lego: This means we're all very close. MZ indicated in last chat they were #2, and he had to set grass to hills and things like that to get to Lego. This is actually good news: Lego and GoW should have had a lot more production then us, given their territory. They're both behind. And prodcution shows the shield count before waste, meaning that in reality, we are probably producing most!

Turn will be played this evening. Can I take the time to urge our generals (or whoever feels like it) to get a defensive plan ready! 8 more turns before Lego's marines can invade our cities....

DeepO

	24-06-2004 18:22									#2
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There was an older 'Defence against Marines' thread started after Hot_Enamel donughted Tiberius. Vulture did a 'vunerability map' of our cities based on a marine attack, and there was some discussion and contribs from Theseus - I'll try to find it and bump.

	24-06-2004 18:36									#3
	Tired of ads?

Spartan academy, perhaps?

Oh, Re: RP message (correctde one ): COmmunism is not worth anything to RP. corruption is non existing, communism is worth nothing as a gov, and WW is nothing, compared to 2 extra rifles per PS. They can have it from us, before the war, but we would like that they build units instead of improvements that don't add anything.

At any rate, 500 gold is way too much, we would probably not even have given that much.

So, ask them to deny the offer, please!
DeepO

	24-06-2004 18:37									#4
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I couldn't find the thread I was looking for, but I found and bumped the RP discussion thread.

	24-06-2004 18:38									#5
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crosspost : hey, that might be the one!

	24-06-2004 18:44									#6
	Vulture's analysis from the Spartan Acadamy thread (text) Tired of ads?

quote: I've had a look at which of our towns connect to which in the event of a succesful amphibious invasion into one of our ports. The bad news is that with 3 move units, they can hit every one of our inland cities (and coastal cities for that matter, apart from Inchoff), starting from any port. With 2 move units invading, taking any port south of Monsoon or Hurricans (including both cities) gives access to the entire south. Dissidentville, Santa Ana and the port next to SA (whose name I can neither remember nor read on the screenshots I have) from an isolated group across the middle - and invasion could take all three, but with two move units couldn't get any further. Everything from Inchoff upwards is isolated from the south with regard to two move units. EXCEPTION: if Dissidentville remains with its current lack of culture, that is a gateway from a northern invasion. It need to get to 100 culture to control D'ville 88, which is enough to protect it against a 2 move invasion from the north. Invasions in RP territory at any port can chain through to Elipolis (they have to go through San Antonio with 2 move units), and can't get any further than Elipolis, Inchon and Winds of Change in a single turn. So a pure tank invasion could take out all our good cities in one turn, landing in any of the southern ports, or take out RP and our three north-most cities with a northern invasion. If they are daft enough to invade the D-ville belt they get three towns. A cavalry / ansar / rider invasion can in principle take everything in one turn, and has no problems with artillery support for cavalry attacks (although the artillery will have to be stationed outside of towns). Sticking to talking about 2 move units, there aren't reall any funnel points for fighting in the south, beyond the fact that the only route between the west coast towns and the southeast is through Sandstorm and then Eye of the Storm. EotS can only be reached from Hurricane, Cyclone or Sandstorm. Sandstorm can only be reached from EotS, Arashi and Tempest.

	24-06-2004 18:49									#7
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and here are the diags.

	24-06-2004 19:05									#8
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Very roughly, does this mean we need 1 inf in every city, and a couple more defenders in the chokepoints for 2-move units? But still, how many units do we need on the coast and what ration between coast and interior cities?

DeepO

	24-06-2004 21:46									#9
	Put an end to popups!

I've moved this discussion to the Marines thread ...

	25-06-2004 01:22									#10
	Re: Turn 217: 1020 AD Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by DeepO Oh, and Re: MZ's message on the production power of Lego: This means we're all very close. MZ indicated in last chat they were #2, and he had to set grass to hills and things like that to get to Lego. This is actually good news: Lego and GoW should have had a lot more production then us, given their territory. They're both behind. And prodcution shows the shield count before waste, meaning that in reality, we are probably producing most!

The great DeepO finally shows that he is mortal!

GNP is all gold generated before corruption.
MFG is all shields generated after waste.

	25-06-2004 02:01									#11
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Oh, is it? I somehow figured it was after waste... similar to GNP.

In that case, we're well before GoW (and ND) in commerce output, and maybe even before Lego...

DeepO

	25-06-2004 02:14									#12
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IMPORTANT NOTE TO OUR GENERALS: We're 8 turns away from the earliest point at which Lego can invade us. Our defenses need to be ready beforehand. We need to move everything in place, and need to build most of our defensive forces, so could you please finalize the precise plan ASAP!

Start
- RP sends 150 gold + WM. accepted. Send our own WM and industrialisation in return. Can't send horses. Does anyone have the precise eta of Sanitation?

- EotS builds rifle. Starts rifle.

- Hurricane builds rifle. Starts destroyer (can be switched to rifle if we need to)

- Cyclone builds worker, starts worker.

- D-ville builds destroyer. Starts destroyer.

- Tempest builds rifle. starts rifle.

- Tornado builds transport. Starts destroyer (needs 1 chop per destroyer, for eta -1)

- Inchoff builds factory. Starts market

- Blizzard builds transport. Starts transport (one chop needed for eta-1)

- 4200 gold, 90%, 885 bpt, -234 gpt. (Mass prod in 3/4) 885/3360 beakers collected tech cost

forces
(- 8 spear, 27 pikes, 8 knights, 8 cat, 12 MI, 2 galley)
- 32 workers
- 27 rifle (+3/turn)
- 14 galleon
- 2 destroyer (+.83/turn)
- 2 transports (+1.03/turn)

For the moment, I'm leaving the knights. If we don't go for cavs, I want to use them asap to rush stuff.

- Average in strength to GoW, weak to ND and Lego

Moves
In general, the specific worker moves are not covered anymore, it gets too tedious. Only important stuff is mentioned.

- irr on Monsoon 3

- foresting on Blizzard 87. Last forest in the area, needs detroyer build after this transport (or rush from 60 to 70 shields, of course)

- foresting on Huriccane 77, 2

- one worker starts forest on Tornado 77, one on D-ville 9.

- 2 workers start on fort in RP.

- new rifles spread over coastal cities.

- our Southern most galley auto-moves to Pica scout, to replace the galleon which is present there (saves 60 gold to use a galley as scout instead of the galleon).
- galleon present at Eli auto-moves to Inchoff scouting pos. (1 turns)
- galleon off the coast of RP moves 336 and forts. Has a better view of Vox
- Galleon in Inchoff moves 3333 (to avoid Nelson hiding in FoW)
- Galleon from Blizzard auto-moves to scouting spot near Sufa (3 turns)
- Galleon forted in Inchoff moves towards deep scouting spot near Abilene(4 turns)
- galleon from BB moves towards Sufa
- destroyer from Monsoon auto-moves towards Sufa
- destroyer from D-ville auto-moves towards Inchoff.
- galleon in Sufa forts.
- transport in Blizzard forts.

workforce shuffles
- Cyclone set back to ideal pattern (needs this every turn).

Current Builds
long term plans for our cities

Eli : hospital in 5 (PS later)
Inchon : aqua in 43
WoC : PS in 1.. Cathedral next
Inchoff : market in 9.( next turn, shortrush 6 shields (there is no 40 shield item)for eta-2. Otherwise, steal some shields from WoC)
D-ville : destroyer in 4. (needs 1 forest, and one turn a mountain instead of a grass (from SA) to get to eta-1)
Santa Ana : Battlefield Medicine in 8 (best city, as it can make 52 spt without disturbing others. Other cities are at 40 spt or 30 spt.)(can give shields to D-ville from time to time)
Blizzard : transport in 3(one forest chopped)
Monsoon : rifle in 1
Arashi : rifle in 1
WW : market in 2
Tempest : rifle in 1
SS: settler in 5
Hurricane : transport in 2. (2 forest chopped for eta-1) Either destroyers, or one more transport (with 1 chop, and 8 shield shortrush to granary)
OG : transport in 2
EotS : rifle in 1
Bolderberg : destroyer in 1
Cyclone: worker in 1
Tornado : destroyer in 5 (chop for -1)
Typhoon : harbor in 1 (cathedral next, because otherwise it would get out of WLTKD too fast with the extra food. that's 2/3 of a destroyer, but not much to be done about it)
Sufa : market in 95

Other

- As I want to mobilize the moment we've got tanks, I'm emphazising naval forces as much as possible right now. Unless this is needed for our defense, of course!

- GoW got Mavdad from ND.

- it doesn't seem like we've got any new info from the swap of WM with GoW

- in F11, we're #3 in production at 675 Megatons. (last turn 673). We more or less maxed out. Next turn will see a slight increase of 4 from SS, but that is all we can get from our land without building more factories.

- screenies are coming

Next Turn

- Bolderberg could have used some irr on a tile for one turn. Had used all my workers already when I found out Oh well, next time, the only difference is in a little food.

- last turn of ND's Silks! so we have to ask for them to renew it, preferably by sending combustion. Better check EotS too, to see if we're not one turn off, as 2 cities would fall to disorder if the deal ended prematurely (I haven't figured out this PBEM lux stuff yet)

DeepO

	25-06-2004 02:38									#13
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Sorry in advance for the size of these. But it's the only way to keep them leggible.


Foresting pic


South Stormia


North Stormia



zoomed pic of Stormia (ideal for indicating our defense plan... hint...hint... )


Mare Nostrum, with pickets and landing positions. Note: two of our pickets don't have the 3-tile view yet, as they were freshly forted)


Lego View


F1. Note that WoC will get to 80 spt next turn, and Monsoon alternates between 38 and 42 spt. The rest of the cities are similar, most are at 30 spt, or 20 spt (the smallest can't reach that, of course)

DeepO

	25-06-2004 04:04									#14
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I just spent a drunken 20 minutes typing a post and it went ping when I accidently pressed the wrong button on the keyboard.

Basically it said :notworthy: to DeepO for the production column in that F1. Wow for efficiency.

I also said that I reckon that Lego are doing what I suggested we'd need to do - defend 'up the park' and spot any naval buildup asap. It looks like both sides will be denying each other that option.

	25-06-2004 04:04									#15
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Thanks for the pics, DeepO, great job as always.