25-06-2004 14:19									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

AFAIK Civ3:Complete has no new code.

	25-06-2004 20:41									#33
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I will not buy another game from Firaxis, until Conquests is fixed to my satisfaction. This includes Civ4.

	25-06-2004 21:33									#34
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Vince278 AFAIK Civ3:Complete has no new code.

Interesting they would say programmers are needed on it then, isn't it?

And Trip - your first post was spoken like a true corporate hack! My congratulations to you.

	25-06-2004 22:21									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Programmers for no new code...
Hmm...

	25-06-2004 22:31									#36
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I was wondering the same thing. Here's Jesse's answer:

quote: The creation of another patch would delay Civ:Complete (latest patched versions of all 3). Its not the primary reason for the On Hold status, but it was a factor in the decision.

	26-06-2004 03:33									#37
	Tired of ads?

Wouldn't it be more proper to hold the release of Civ3: Complete until last patch for C3C was done - so that the name Civ3: Complete would actually be accurate?

I fail to see the logic of the defensive argument from Firaxis (except from a Corporate point of view perhaps).

	26-06-2004 10:30									#38
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Corporate logic?

	26-06-2004 15:07									#39
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Trip Having good Civ 4 > Civ 3 at this point. Future sales of Civ 4 > future sales of Civ 3. Focusing on where the cash is is only sensible for companies who want to survive to make future games.

True, those many here will have long memories about this unfinished game.

	26-06-2004 15:12									#40
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The question is: will people who won't buy C3Complete be able to download that 'latest' patch?
Or will we have to buy C3Complete?

	26-06-2004 15:24									#41
	Get a bigger avatar today!

No, when they say latest patch they just mean 1.22, not a further patch that would only be available through Civ: Complete. Not even Firaxis would do that.

	26-06-2004 19:28									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I would hope not!

	18-07-2004 13:36									#43
	Re: Bad news: Next patch on hold Increase the size of your Attachments

again the grand planners show their true colours - no plan

ahh it is very very sad

	18-07-2004 14:54									#44
	Inflate your Upload Space

Well it's a shame, but the reason I am not playing Civ3 at the moment is it was already on the cards it would turn out this way. Sad indeed, and I hope that people remember the way this has been handled.

	18-07-2004 17:52									#45
	Remove this text

ahhh they be cads

they have the money we have paid for good product and have yet to deliver

wonder how they would feel if they came into my bar, and they only got 1/3 of the drink in each glass, yet I still charged them standard price...

yeah I know what I would say, and that is what I would say to the Firaxis Cowards if they had the courage to front up...

but they are not going to show up are they

	18-07-2004 18:06									#46
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well we'll all buy Civ4, let's be honest. I might consider downloading the expansion when it comes though, since paying for a game that may never be finished is always painful.

	18-07-2004 18:35									#47
	Support Apolyton

of course we will buy Civ 4

ahh just as we will buy gruddy pizzas at 3am after a night on the grog

	18-07-2004 21:45									#48
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

all i have to do is load up a good buccaneer movie and i can feel the incredible dying edge of my seat anticipation for pirates. i can see it already, bug free, fun, addictive, with endless replaying value against an AI that will outwitt me every game.

it could happen

as for the civ3 patch

'i'm sorry for making promises' (i just like to mislead you fans)

'we have bigger projects' (so please preorder a copy)

'fixing only made more problems' (the intern suicidal rate is getting worryingly high)

'civ3 complete' (hehehehe, don't expect the on hold patch for this baby either!)

	18-07-2004 23:38									#49
	Inflate your Upload Space

Well, I do not know how much character this shows, however as a determined CIV 2 fan, I would not, did not buy CIV 3 until Conquests! Am I better off? Did I get screwed anyway? Gee, one might wonder....

	19-07-2004 03:11									#50
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

All the more reason to spread the word on the AU Mod... especially now that we've got Armies partially solved.

And I STILL think they should hire alexman!!

	19-07-2004 03:42									#51
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Theseus All the more reason to spread the word on the AU Mod... especially now that we've got Armies partially solved. And I STILL think they should hire alexman!!

I feel realy sad when I think AI army usage can be solved by just changing one line of code.




Maybe when Civ5 gets out we could get source code for C3C and fix bugs outself?

But 99% of gamers would not care about that.

	19-07-2004 03:51									#52
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

By the time Civ5 comes out we wont need it. That's the new projected date for the next patch.

	19-07-2004 05:00									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Gosh guys, I sure feel better now...

	20-07-2004 18:01									#54
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Paddy the Scot of course we will buy Civ 4 ahh just as we will buy gruddy pizzas at 3am after a night on the grog

Touché, I think.

	20-07-2004 20:34									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Well, as a new member making a first post, I may as well step into an emotional issue!

I won't defend any software company for buggy products, but let's remember a few key things (in no particular order):
-A company, ANY company, has to pay its workers and make a profit. Thus, a software company can not spend forever patching a product but does have to move on at some point in time.
-Let's face it, Civ 3 in all its guises is a darn good game. Perfect? Nah. But how many hours of entertainment have you had for your investment? Anyone on here probably has MORE than gotten their money's worth.
-Did you wait for reviews of Civ 3, PTW, or C3C? Or at least wait til it was out for a while to get a price cut? (I didn't on Civ 3 but did on the two expansions, getting them for roughly half price after they were on store shelves for a while).
-Most gamers aren't picking apart the nitty details that those here do. A company can't focus on polishing the cannonball for the Expert Experts, it has to focus on its core market.
-Firaxis does in fact do a much better job than most companies when it comes to value of the product as well as patches to fix bugs (not to mention listening to the fans)
-Patches/bug squashing is not a trivial exercise.
-Will you buy Civ 4? What do you REALLY think?????

I've learned a ton by reading the threads here, and finally joined. In the next few days I'll get around to being a paying member. The insight of the players on this site amazes me at times.

You guys (and ladies?) are a smart bunch of gamers, but I'd suggest you look at the flight sim market. The flight simmers were such pains in the *ss that they wouldn't be happy with ANYTHING. Always flaming about shortcomings of "how fast the Mustang banks", or whatever. And now the market that was once busily producing titles is lucky to have one quality product a year. So continue to push for what you want, how it could be better, and point out bugs. But don't let negativism over a few smaller things ruin your day!

Petrus

	20-07-2004 20:43									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

i think it's just a great shame firaxis didn't accept sirpleb's (CFC) offer to bugfix... virtually for free!

imho it's absolutely feeble. they say they don't have resources for continuing the work, but when they get it offered on a silver plate, they just say "no can do".

but nonetheless: no game ever has kept me going as much as civ3x has and therefor, i'm sure i'm going to but civ4... as long as it isn't RTS (which has been confirmed that it won't be )

	20-07-2004 21:25									#57
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I think the real problem here is that both original Civ3 and PtW were better patched then C3C.

In fact, C3C introduced new bugs in some parts of Civ3 that worked before like AI use of armies or barbarian behavior.

If there were no these things I would say, good for them lets make Civ4, but leaving game with such bugs is just bad.

I mean, you play original Civ3, have challenging barbairans and AI use of army, then you upgrade to C3C and these thing stop working.


P.S.
Lucky, all around C3C is good product so I wouldn't go back to original beacuse of these few bugs.
But anyway, they are pretty irritating.

	20-07-2004 22:11									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Surely it wouldn't take long to release a patch that add two characters to one one of code (-1 to army movement for purposes of comparison).

	20-07-2004 23:57									#59
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think it has more to do with the stubborness of todays gaming industry.

No one in the right mind would spend a money on whole alpha, beta, final patch cycle just to get few changes in game code.

You do a big tested patch or no patch at all.


P.S.
I hope I'm wrong in this case.

	21-07-2004 00:06									#60
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

What I would like to see as an industry "standard" (and yeah, the word Standard when applied to this industry is actually pretty funny, if you think about it!) would be for the "final" patch to be in two parts.

Part 1 adds in anything new, makes the game play adjustments, fixes previous bugs, etc.

Part 2 ONLY fixes new bugs. No new game play. None. Nada. Cause we all know each addition will increase the chance for new bugs.

When the company issues the Final Patch, they plan resources for both parts, knowing the Murphy lives and new bugs will exist.

IMHO