12-02-2001 15:46									#1
	Hypocrisy of this damn place. Full PM-box? Change here!

Well after what I can only describe as an unfruitful discussion with Ming on ICQ last night after he decided to close my thread quite in a quite unjustified manner, I would like to know why he has such a problem with me, when I do exactly as he does, all I get is abuse that I am just a spammer and never contribute anything good to the OT. He goes to ACOL and spams, he goes to CGN and spams, yet anyone who does the same here is squished. I have never made DLs, I avoid flaming, I have trolled on only a few of my threads and have regretted it as it causes too much mess and unpleasantness.

I would just like the record setting straight on this one Ming. I am not some child, you are not my headteacher, thus I do not wish to be the victim of your condescending attitude towards so many people at this place.

I have never violated the rules, I have told you if there is something you are happy with to discuss it with me on ICQ. Why does no one else have a problem with me except you? If this does not yield, I will be going to the administrators on this issue.

	12-02-2001 15:50									#2
	Tired of ads?

Chill, Winston! I doubt posting a thread here will resolve anything you can't discuss over ICQ just as well. So essentially, this is just an attempt by you to put extra preassure on Ming by holding the discussion out in the open. Now that's übertrolling!

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>I have never violated the rules
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Well... um.... er...

	12-02-2001 15:59									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Come to ACOL and chill out for a bit.

Ming says he spams where it's allowed and I think that's OK. I don't really believe in spam as a concept. If I post something (I think is) amusing in a thread that isn't directly relevant, well I don't consider that spam, I don't think humour or even just chatting is spam that implies it's worthless. I don't think it is.

I get the feeling this thread will be closed or deleted because you have directed it at Ming there is an issue to discuss here I think though.

	12-02-2001 16:03									#4
	Got spare money?

More than likely but the point still stands. No dissent will be tolerated. I resent this attitude I have directed towards me.

Snapcase. I have not done anything which is against the spirit of the rules, which seem to be so much at the whim of the powers-that-be here.

My objection is, why has Ming always taken this crappy attitude against me?

	12-02-2001 16:20									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Hi Mum


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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

	12-02-2001 16:28									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

So what you are saying is Resistance is futile?

Probably true. I guess you are torn because you like a lot of people here but are getting fed up with the restrictions placed on what you can say. Moving forums won't work unless you take all the people you want to talk to with you and that won't ever happen so you have to either put up with it or try and do something to change it. You've been putting up with it but it's got a bit much and you don't feel anything you say or do will make a difference to change it.

Good summary of the situation?

	12-02-2001 16:29									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

Spot on Mike! I couldn't have put it better myself...

	12-02-2001 16:34									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Maybe he’s just jealous of your high post count, whirlwind typing skills, and quick-witted repartee.

	12-02-2001 16:38									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Heh.

But another point is though, I like Matt, he seems to be a decent fella and we have no problem with one another at all. I just wish Ming would give me a chance, he will probably find I am not a malignant tumour deep within the flesh of Apolyton after all...

	12-02-2001 16:39									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

So some debate on this issue would be healthy then? Certainly looks that way to me, from what I've read you aren't the only one with these concerns. The people who do have concerns like this seem to be written off a little bit as unimportant. Possibly because they aren't serious enough.

This place would be really depressing without the humour, sometimes a serious issue needs to be defused slightly before people get carried away with taking themselves too seriously.

	12-02-2001 16:52									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I am probably among the unimportant posters , but I would like to say that the "mood" on apolyton has become rather depressing lately. And it's disturbing to see that it's more or less not allowed to criticize the decision's of the mods, like when MarkG bit of Imran when he voice his opinion of being threated unfairly. That's at least how it seemed to me.

	12-02-2001 16:53									#12
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I don't think he is against spamming, he is against breaking the rules. That's his job here as a moderator.

Is this hypocritical? If Ming critises your spamming, it is. If, however, he critises your spamming because you are breaking the rules, it is not.

It's like driving at a certain speed. Can you drive 80 km/h inside a city? But you can on a highway. Is the traffic policeman who catches you speeding inside a city drives at 80km/h on a highway a hypocrite?

	12-02-2001 16:56									#13
	Suffering from ads?

I think PH's problem is not with Ming enforcing the rules but that he doesn't seem (at the moment) to be allowing any discussion about the rules or decisions.

	12-02-2001 17:09									#14
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Mike,

That's not what I read. Provost wrote:

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Provost Harrison on 02-12-2001 05:46 AM</font>
Well after what I can only describe as an unfruitful discussion with Ming on ICQ last night after he decided to close my thread quite in a quite unjustified manner, I would like to know why he has such a problem with me, when I do exactly as he does, all I get is abuse that I am just a spammer and never contribute anything good to the OT. He goes to ACOL and spams, he goes to CGN and spams, yet anyone who does the same here is squished.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

It seems to me that he's pissed off because he can't spam, not because lack of discussions.

I have no idea <em>how</em> Rich discussed the issue with Ming. Maybe he wasn't in a good mood, and neither was Ming. Sparks flied. *shrug*

	12-02-2001 17:17									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

One of my issues is how I am regarded by Ming here. Now as the moderator, he can make my life harder. Now he chastises me about how I am a spammer and then does what I do on other forums. But I also take part in debates and the like as well as have fun in the not so serious threads. I raised this issue, and he locks it because 'what he does isn't against the rules' at other sites. Surely this is hypocritical, surely he should practice what he preaches, rather than demonise me for something he himself is guilty of. UR, I recommend you check out the previous thread which was locked, and check out some of his threads at CGN.

	12-02-2001 17:19									#16
	Put an end to popups!

...also he trolled against the moderation at CGN. Now I understand that there is a clash of wills here, but Ming just seems to be throwing his weight around here. I don't think I deserve to be treated like I am, just having my threads slammed shut on me.

	12-02-2001 17:29									#17
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Being relativly new here, I post this with some trepidation, but there does seem to be a double standard at work here. There is a lot of talk about spamming, yet organized spamming like the Coffee shops seems to be no problem. I don't care if people do it in the shop, if that's their bag, who am I to say different? I have had some good conversations here(with urban ranger,for one), and at times it seems that people do get away with violating the rules, like that British guy that always knocks americans, for instance. As far as post counts and such, they don't concern me in the least. PH may be angry, but I do in fact agree with some of the things he says. If the code of conduct is to be inforced, it should aply to everyone equaly, no matter how long they have been here, or who their friends with. It is not my site, I don't have a say in how it's run, but double standards do exist here. I'm not looking to cause trouble, but I do see it.

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All knowledge begins with the phrase: I don't know.

	12-02-2001 17:41									#18
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Which speech will the mods use.....let's see.... I suspect they'll go for the "if you don't like it, you can leave" speech. Its a real crowd pleaser


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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

	12-02-2001 17:51									#19
	Suffering from ads?

This thread is starting to get repugnant.
It looks to be the awakenings of another self-righteous consortium bemoaning about its collective wounded pride and calling out for justice for the rather trivial slights some members may have experienced.

The thread was well closed. Whether Spam or not, it was too close to an attack on a poster, namely Ming, which is expressly prohibited by the guidelines of the site.

Ming calls everyone a spamer, and from what I’ve seen he deletes all threads with equal equanimity.
God only knows how many of mine he’s killed.

So for evolution’s sake, let’s find something better to complain about.
However if one must continue this farce in the name of fair play, then take it to PM, or put it to here: http://apolyton.net/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Apolyton&number=20&DaysPrune=10
where it should have started in the first place.

	12-02-2001 17:51									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Provost is my favorite Euro. Don't go.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>and at times it seems that people do get away with violating the rules, like that British guy that always knocks americans, for instance
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

I agree with this whole heartedly.

	12-02-2001 17:52									#21
	Remove this text

Only a matter of minutes now before Ming punches in and starts the day by making some toast...

	12-02-2001 17:53									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Well what is your view on this matter Winston?

	12-02-2001 17:59									#23
	Inflate your Upload Space

Well PH, I've had similar sentiments in the past like you have now. Rarely for myself though, mostly outraged at admins' decisions of inequal justice towards others, you know. I went away for two months recently because of it, but I've settled back in and chosen to ignore any inequality for the time being...

That said, only on a few occassions have I seen Ming display dubious acts of moderation, it's mostly been MarkG who's acted like a one eyed gunman with the sun in his eyes.

I say try and get over it. Tomorrow's a new day. That's about the only advice I can offer, and I still say this thread is doomed. Creating a thread in the OT is not the way to go about it.

Edit: Oops, substituted threat for thread in the last sentence.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by winston (edited February 12, 2001).]</font>

	12-02-2001 18:02									#24
	Put an end to popups!

I wouldn't have done this if my ICQ conversation with Ming wasn't quite as fruitless as it was. But I want to draw a bit of fire as well, I want to see what the response is to me from other posters. I just wish Ming wouldn't treat me with such contempt, I am not that bad a bloke.

	12-02-2001 18:06									#25
	Increase the size of your Attachments

When threads like this are allowed to run on, it can only mean one thing: AN ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE MODS

Repent I say! Recant! Before its too late!

*I was never here*


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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

	12-02-2001 18:08									#26
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Or none of them are online...

	12-02-2001 18:10									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Provost Harrison on 02-12-2001 08:08 AM</font>
Or none of them are online...
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Yes well, there is that possibility too

Let's PARTY!

*horse makes a Ming effigy for burning*

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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Alexander's Horse (edited February 12, 2001).]</font>

	12-02-2001 18:10									#28
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hey Provost,

THIS ISN'T ACOL! DUH!

	12-02-2001 18:12									#29
	Support Apolyton

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Provost Harrison on 02-12-2001 08:02 AM</font>
I just wish Ming wouldn't treat me with such contempt, I am not that bad a bloke.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Could you point out this contempt for me please?

I'm just curious.

	12-02-2001 18:17									#30
	Got spare money?

Well, you would have to read the ICQ transcript, but that is private and I don't have it on me.