25-06-2004 22:43									#1
	Two techs per round? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I thought I had read references to this, is it possible? Other than using a AA and the like. One tech per round is certainly easy enough to obtain, but two?

	25-06-2004 22:57									#2
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Check my .sav file posted here. 4 Techs per turn.

(And this is an AI faction, not me - I'm playing as Sparta)

G

	25-06-2004 23:04									#3
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I am at work and can't open a game, I'll try to download it at home this weekend. Until then, how many labs (roughly) does it take to get two techs per turn. How quickly can you obtain such a level of labs?

	25-06-2004 23:37									#4
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I think my best was something like 5 or 6 but that was with the entire tech tree discovered , the map covered and the AI down to a single base. It was getting ridiculous as each turn I was discovering more techs than the turn before as more and more population ( mainly transcendii) and satellites came online. I figured if I kept going and the tech cost did not SKYROCKET, it would be possibe to go to even higher numbers of techs per turn.. But that was just silliness.


In a real game I have gotten 2 techs in a turn in a PBEM I am in right now. I am the Drones and managed it a couple of times about a 110 years in when I went knowledge and cybernetic to go with FM-- I had the sliders at 80 or 90% Labs.

Even now I am getting just in excess of a tech a turn at 50% Labs while running PLanned, Eudomania and knowledge (I am building a lot of nanohospitals and +5 industry was just too sweet). I expect when I switch back to cybernetic that I will easily get in excess of 2 techs a turn and actually might even make a play on getting 3 if I run the allocations up to 100% Labs ( all the transcendii mean you will still get some cash).

	26-06-2004 00:57									#5
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Multiple techs per turn is definitely achievable with solid play, especially in late game. If your tech rate gets high enough, you reach a point where you'll accrue more points in future tech than you lose through not transcending, so the highest theoretical score would be a game where you transcended at the last possible moment before mandatory retirement. Of course, it would be really boring.

	26-06-2004 01:39									#6
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Let's see how many techs per turn we will be getting in the ACDG3. ;-)

	26-06-2004 01:45									#7
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So I assume you get these kinds of numbers by just filling up the map with cities and building all tech facilities? I'm a few cities and energy park kinda guy. I actually hate too much micromanagement.

	26-06-2004 02:02									#8
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Your assumption would be correct. Lots of highly advanced bases with lots of specialists.

	26-06-2004 02:45									#9
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and lots of power satellites, too

	26-06-2004 03:14									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie and lots of power satellites, too

yup

cloning vats+CBA with nutrient satellites allowing more and more specialists and power stellites as well. It actually gets really silly when you have dozens of size 30,40 ,50 bases. Thats why most players have never tried a highest score challenge since you have to keep playing with hundreds of bases and just build more and more satellites


But two techs a turn is VERY achievable. If I am doing it with the Drones and their inherent -2 Research, just imagine what the University could do

	29-06-2004 13:41									#11
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*Has never acheived more than 1 tech a turn, even though he uses Uni almost to the exclusion of all other factions*

*Is ashamed*

	29-06-2004 14:47									#12
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Bear in mind it is far, far easier to get several techs per turn on smaller maps. It's rather hard on a huge map. It is also a fair bit harder with blind research, because you get so much "fluff" tech rather than techs that help increase your research rate.

	29-06-2004 20:12									#13
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In fairness My drone game where I have gotten 2 techs a turn is on the veterans map at CGN . . . each player has several landmarks on one of the 4 identical landmasses.

So its not a normal map BUT on the flip side, there were 3 human opponents and NO AI .. . so no easy conquest and I have been in some protracted wars that have drained a lot of resources away

	29-06-2004 20:42									#14
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Might I advise that next time you be on the 0wning end rather than the 0wn3d end?

	29-06-2004 20:53									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova Might I advise that next time you be on the 0wning end rather than the 0wn3d end?

what does this mean??

	29-06-2004 21:17									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Blake Bear in mind it is far, far easier to get several techs per turn on smaller maps. It's rather hard on a huge map.

Ahhhh. Now you tell me. I play huge maps 95% of the time. I just started a huge map trying to ICS in order to build up to two techs a round.

On that note: ICS is almost a fool-proof strategy for beating the AI in Transcend and has many obvious advantages in MP, but damn, it is boring as hell. It is like building the suburbs....yeck! The borg would be proud.

	29-06-2004 21:39									#17
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Flubber: The best defence is a good offence.

	30-06-2004 00:46									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova Flubber: The best defence is a good offence.

I understand that point and it is doubly true in Smax-- I have posted countless times on the fact that in a war you want that to be an attacker. If you were referring to my Drone game, I was the attacker and about half my bases are captured ones. There was heavy cost to do this though

	30-06-2004 01:37									#19
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Cost like what?
The units you're supporting, or preventing the bases rioting into the ground?

	30-06-2004 01:56									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber I have posted countless times on the fact that in a war you want that to be an attacker.

This is true in SMAX and true in life.

	30-06-2004 02:44									#21
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I think it would depend on the difficulty level. I've done 4 techs per turn on librarian level. Fairly easy. Although this isn't until the end when you build those really cool secret projects. Like the one's that put you in a continous pop boom and eleminate city rioting all toegether.

	30-06-2004 04:24									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova Cost like what? The units you're supporting, or preventing the bases rioting into the ground?

Mineral costs-- I am fighting humans so Shard wave choppers are a necessity and even they die against the 8 armour of the defenders inside an aerocomplex. That plus the cost of rushing defenders and probe defenses plus the cost of the reactor 4 Planet Buster-- Oh ya and the 20+ ODPs I have up and the dozen or so energy satellites I have lost to opposing ODPs

Support is irrelevant in the clean era ( or at least nothing to get worried about) and I have the SP that prevents bases from rioting so I am quite content to let a base have 5 drones while working tiles OR conversely , convert them all to transcendii and allow my food sats to keep the base from starving

	30-06-2004 04:26									#23
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To be clear, the cost manifests iteself in tiles not terraformed and crawlers not built as I was building the other stuff

Also I only got the TOE and did not get the Supercollider. With both, I thing 3 techs a turn would be achievable in short order

	30-06-2004 08:26									#24
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Attacking is always the best, especially in early game. Since weapons are much, much higher than armor, unless you're in a base with a perimeter defense, most units in the field will get picked of pretty easily...

	30-06-2004 10:25									#25
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I got three techs last turn in my Pirate / huge game with 100% labs and an SSC. It's right near the end of the game now, and I should finish the tech tree this coming turn. I have 28 bases, only 18 of which I built. Most have populations in the low to mid 20s, except for my original two sea bases which I pop boomed up a bit after I got the Cloning Vats. They are both in the mid 40s in population. The game seems to really accelerate toward the end.

I never ran FM btw, though I did run Demo / Green / Wealth (GA) for a good deal of time, switching to Demo / Planned / Wealth (GA) to pop boom once. At this point I have the last of the Lab boosting facilities and am just marking time until the end of the game.

	30-06-2004 12:03									#26
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It always speeds up near the end. Then again, the turns will take longer, and as such
the faster the pace of the game, the slower the turns come around.
Ironic.

	30-06-2004 21:04									#27
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Does the SE screen actually list 2 techs, 3 techs, etc. ?

	30-06-2004 22:11									#28
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Not at all, l_i.

	30-06-2004 22:47									#29
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Hmm....that could be my problem then. I keep readjusting my labs to get more cash at 1 tech per round.

	01-07-2004 00:12									#30
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quote: Originally posted by livid imp Hmm....that could be my problem then. I keep readjusting my labs to get more cash at 1 tech per round.

That would be a problem. The F3 screen does not show how many techs per round you get but it does show

1. accumulated lab points
2. lab points earned on the turn
3. tech cost


In the later game the tech costs do not rise so dramatically so if you can earn double the tech cost plus perhaps 10-15% more to compensate for wasted labs and the increase, you should be fine.

Just be careful to assess where your better science bases fall in the order of bases to be counted since all labs beyond those necessary to make the discovery are wasted for the base that contributes those final lab points.