29-06-2004 06:58									#31
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I mean hex based with a sphere. Not just hex based with a cylinder. I thought that would be obvious considering the previous post.

	29-06-2004 08:14									#32
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when did I mention cylinders?

Giant 3D hex world = giant soccer ball. C'est simple. But like I said, I see no compelling reason to turn the game 3D.

	29-06-2004 08:17									#33
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soccer ball = 6 or so pentagons....

we discussed this like 6 years ago.

	29-06-2004 08:24									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse soccer ball = 6 or so pentagons.... we discussed this like 6 years ago.

Giant soccer ball = sphere made up of a large number of hexes, not just six.

Furthermore, I repeat myself. I see no compelling reason to go 3D, be it giant soccer ball fashion, hexes, or tiles.

	29-06-2004 08:28									#35
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No...pentagons.

All 6 sided figures don't make a sphere well.

	29-06-2004 13:43									#36
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The 3D (more like isometric) display of PG3SE is quite functional.

Though as DC pointed out, scale is a big problem here.

Nothing wrong with an overhead (flat) display as Solver suggested, either. That would make the game runs on more computers.

In fact, it would be nice if there's a choice between the two.

	29-06-2004 14:35									#37
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A globe that is a globe (that is you can fly over the poles) would be darn nice.

	29-06-2004 15:31									#38
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I don't think you guys are on the right track. If you read the ppt file well, you will notice that Soren refers his "3D games" to the likes of Warcraft III and Age of Mythology (which do use 3D engines).

The only issue with this is that the map would have to be at least 10x the size of each of those rts games.

	29-06-2004 15:36									#39
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Has anybody played with Empire Earth's editor?

I recall playing around with it and editing the land height.

I remember now.. I think I used height maps to make the maps, and the mountains were huge, I mean.. HUGE. I had them sticking straight out of the ocean, with large valleys aswell. Then I placed a ship in the water then played the game. I tell you, it was absolutely unbelievable. It was like, this normal sized ship, in this huge world. It was as if it were to scale. You really felt like you were discovering new land as you sailed around the mountains and valleys.


Somebody, if you have Empire Earth, or know someone who might, make a height map (if you can't, I'll do it for ya), and load it up, then post some screenshots, you'll really begin to see what I mean.

	29-06-2004 15:47									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Sn00py I don't think you guys are on the right track. If you read the ppt file well, you will notice that Soren refers his "3D games" to the likes of Warcraft III and Age of Mythology (which do use 3D engines).

PPT? Who reads those?

	29-06-2004 17:59									#41
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I never have, I never would, but in order to get more info on cIV I had to get a ppt viewer. so.. HA!

	29-06-2004 19:59									#42
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I'll put up some Empire Earth screenshots later today...

	30-06-2004 04:24									#43
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Good one man! But remember, you'll have to import a bizarre height map for the map.

	30-06-2004 04:53									#44
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Do you think that you could post a height map that I could use? I've never been very successful with my map creation and heightmap making attempts in the past...

	30-06-2004 05:54									#45
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Ok, I will have to do that when I get back from work (about 10 hrs from now).

	30-06-2004 13:26									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen I've always wanted Civ4 to have a hex-based map and if it were 3d, it should be like a giant soccer ball world (a true spherical world). Please firaxis, make it HEX BASED

No.

Way.

In.











HELL.

	30-06-2004 14:48									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Giant soccer ball = sphere made up of a large number of hexes, not just six.

You can't make a 3D shape based on haxagons since If yo put them together so that they fit with each other you will fet a flat surface.

	30-06-2004 14:54									#48
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here's a text i found quoted of soren johnson (AI programmer and lead programmer for CIV)

quote: [...] We're a long, long way from announcing anything concrete about the game - largely b/c a lot of things might change between now and when we ship (in the distant future). However, I can certainly share one important point just so no one worries unnecessarily. Civ4 will be turn-based, and it will be tile-based.

	30-06-2004 14:57									#49
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Soren was the lead/AI programmer for Civ 3, he's now the lead designer for Civ IV.

As far as that quote, it doesn't really reveal anything about the nature of the tiles - simply that they will exist (as opposed to a province-type system). But I think it's a forgone conclusion that those tiles will indeed be diamonds.

	30-06-2004 14:59									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Gramphos You can't make a 3D shape based on haxagons since If yo put them together so that they fit with each other you will fet a flat surface.

it's not too much of a problem, because at 120x120 tiles (or however you'd call it on hex maps), the distortion for a whole globe is "only" 3° at the equator. towards the polar latitudes it gets worse and worse... but you've got that problem for any kind of regular shape, be it squares, hexagons or triangles

the only way to not have polar distortions would be to use a globe form. but then, it couldn't be tiles anymore...

	30-06-2004 15:07									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Soren was the lead/AI programmer for Civ 3, he's now the lead designer for Civ IV.

thanks for the correction

quote: As far as that quote, it doesn't really reveal anything about the nature of the tiles - simply that they will exist (as opposed to a province-type system).

and also as opposed to non-tile-based systems (like all current RTS)

quote: But I think it's a forgone conclusion that those tiles will indeed be diamonds.

i fear it'll be like that (instead of my favorite: hexagons) ... but still better than tile-less

	30-06-2004 17:46									#52
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My vote is for a hex-map.

But that's not important now. What I really want to see in this version is Canal-Building! I've been having to hack maps up far too often because I lacked the ability to dig a big ditch.

So, canals, yep, we need 'em.

	30-06-2004 18:01									#53
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There's no point in going 3D unless it provides a spherical map.

	30-06-2004 19:22									#54
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Aye, but then if you talk about how you tile a sphere, then you're looking at how to pack shapes onto the surface of a sphere, which is 'orrible. The only way to do a 3d enclosed object would be with several different tiles (most likely just a hexagon/pentagon pair). This would require a number of different tiles for each terrain type.

Or you could use circles, and just use software to smear the gaps between them, which would require some solid programming (and I reckon it would probably look nasty).

Chances are they are just talking about 3d-ish images, but still resident in a 2d tiled environment. In this case, all hexagons are the go. I mean, you're not gonna get a real 3d hologram globe to play with, are you?

	01-07-2004 03:43									#55
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A 3D globe as a map for cIV is mind boggling. Sure, it'll work easy for Populous 3, but notice how small it was?

For cIV, it would have to be massive in order to correctly display everything and leave plenty of room for actual gameplay.


A 3D Globe just isn't going to happen, not with today's standard computers.

	01-07-2004 04:03									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Sn00py A 3D globe as a map for cIV is mind boggling. Sure, it'll work easy for Populous 3, but notice how small it was? For cIV, it would have to be massive in order to correctly display everything and leave plenty of room for actual gameplay. A 3D Globe just isn't going to happen, not with today's standard computers.

Yeah, whatever.

For starters, how about explaining why a spherical 3D map would require anything more than a flat 3D map?

Perhaps it's that a flat 3D map can be small and still look good, in which case I say: Small? I don't want small maps! If you can't have huge maps in 3D, I don't want 3D and if you can have huge maps in 3D, there's no logical reason to not make it spherical.

	01-07-2004 04:09									#57
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quote: Originally posted by dexsquab Aye, but then if you talk about how you tile a sphere, then you're looking at how to pack shapes onto the surface of a sphere, which is 'orrible.

Slight distortions in the tiles wouldn't really matter. Tiles don't neccisarily need to be the same size - just have the same amount of borders.


Unless you're thinking of puting the sphere together in the same fashion as a 2D map is generated - by placing pre-rendered tiles together like a puzzle. That doesn't neccisarily have to be how it's done. One method that comes to mind is just drawing a map with no tiles, and then lay a grid over top it and determining the type of tile by the percentage of different terrains in it. This could also lead to better looking maps and the possibility for hybrid tiles that could provide various different benefits.

	01-07-2004 05:40									#58
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I don't see any problems with distorted tiles as long as they're not too distorted.

	01-07-2004 08:44									#59
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Or you could get rid of tiles together and use a coordinate system instead.

	01-07-2004 12:22									#60
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it should be completely random

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