27-06-2004 03:28									#1
	Fight to the bitter end or call it quits at the start Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I've been starting emperor games now that I finally got enough experience in beating the game at monarch.
Sometimes the starting loc is just downright lousy, so much so that it almost guarantees that you won't be in the race to win the game in the end. I played a few games into something like 1000 AD even though it was clear that it would be very difficult to win. At that point it's usually clear if one or several AIs are well ahead in tech and have knocked an AI or two out of the game and so are usually also ahead or close in land area and pop.
I have yet to win an emperor game, the closest one was with me playing the Celts but alas, the slightly smaller but more advanced India managed to get in front. They were about to start building their SS and I had not yet even researched those techs so I made a last ditch invasion to grab enough land and pop for a domination victory but India's mech inf was too much for my tanks and I admitted defeat. Maybe I need to work on my REXing, I keep losing unescorted settlers to sneaky hiding barbarians x)

So how many of you people actually choose to try to beat the odds and see how far you can go and how many choose New game from the menu after you see that yes, the island is just an endless morass of jungle and wetlands with the occasional mountain thrown in there?

	27-06-2004 04:10									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

In single player I would tend to start again if my immediate lands are poor.

In MP I stick it out no matter how crap the land is, because there are more options on strategy and more ways to be a nuisance to the big boys.

	27-06-2004 05:10									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Never restarted a game of Civ because of the starting location. And my most satisfying wins ever have to come from the times when I spent the early part of the game trying to get over the terrible terrain, when for most of the game I wasn't anywhere near the first-rank world powers, but managed to survive that, and somehow got myself to win.

	27-06-2004 07:42									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

If I have a bad starting position I usually end up playing a bit, and if it doesn't go well I just start a new game. However, I save almost every game I play just in case I want to go back and try it again.

	27-06-2004 08:28									#5
	Suffering from ads?

my recent game I quit I had no access to Iron, and had a largely jungle starting area. I had good resources, but the jungle was slowing me down. I was India, so I could build war elephants. but I would never be able to build factories without iron.

I usually don't just quit. I retire. Which is essentually the same I guess. I just wish I would get the winning screen when I have more points

	27-06-2004 09:12									#6
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I usually play the bad starts, unless i am playing on sid.

	27-06-2004 09:33									#7
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I always restart on bad starts. I once remember restarting about 30 times in a row before I was happy. I've done this in MOO3 too.

	27-06-2004 17:20									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

A river with grassland around it is a huge boost for research in the beginning.

One other thing I've noticed is that the AI seems to know where the iron deposits and horses and such are GOING to be, even when he doesn't have iron working or the wheel etc. Same goes for far away islands. Do AI galleys ever sink in non-coastal waters? I've tried to block the AI by putting my own ships into the coastal waters so he has to stop in non-coastal but he doesn't seem to mind.

	27-06-2004 17:26									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Never quit a game just because a poor start loc.

	27-06-2004 18:08									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

A couple of guys are obviously lying!

	28-06-2004 00:16									#11
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I've had a start before where all lands within immediate vicinity were mountains, tundra or forested tundra - I did have a fish resource in one the coastal squares though. Its starts like this that make it hard for me to believe anyone would choose to carry on no matter what the terrain start.

	28-06-2004 00:58									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I dont have enough time in life to play lots and lots of loser games - espec as I prefer modern era

	28-06-2004 01:03									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Dauphin I've had a start before where all lands within immediate vicinity were mountains, tundra or forested tundra - I did have a fish resource in one the coastal squares though. Its starts like this that make it hard for me to believe anyone would choose to carry on no matter what the terrain start.

Yeah, I don't try to carry on with starts like those. I demand a decent amount of potentially 2 food tiles at least.

But if you want to see such a start played out, check out this thread

Edit: Hmm, the images are gone. That kind of ruins it.

	28-06-2004 11:34									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I try to have a good start.
On demigod level you make no change with a bad start.

	28-06-2004 14:21									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep But if you want to see such a start played out, check out this thread Edit: Hmm, the images are gone. That kind of ruins it.

A shame, but just think of a start on a reasonable-sized iceberg. I mean it. Almost nothing but tundra, with a few fish etc around and Mtns + hills. And he did it too.

That's why I'm paying VERY close attention to Aeson's advice in the SPDG.

	28-06-2004 17:32									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

On frustratingly bad start locations, no matter how satisfying a future victory might be, I can't help but think "I could be having more fun if I just started over."

	28-06-2004 18:24									#17
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I'm thinking about developing loads of interesting maps myself, then picking a map at random when I want to play.

This way I can shape some interesting landscapes, more unique features compared to the automatic generation whose output starts to look the same after awhile. Also, I can distribute the resources in a more game pleasing way. I don't mind scarcity, but its too much of an impact when one or two civs control all the world's iron.

Most importantly, I can set the starting locations so it's reasonable for everyone.

However, a lot of upfront costs required by building enough maps that I forget about the specifics of any one map. On the other hand, if you trade map files with someone, both individuals could get a fully customized map (to order!) and only have to build one map.

	29-06-2004 16:13									#18
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I restart.
I have no time to loose.

	29-06-2004 19:18									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner I'm thinking about developing loads of interesting maps myself, then picking a map at random when I want to play.

I used to do that for CivII. If you don't put too much effort into the map you'll propably forget about them quite quickly. At least I did.