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DrFell
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Dammit, this looks like a nice challenge, next time play on a smaller map though, don't know this thing can handle those kind of huge maps (tried a huge map game once, by the start of the AD years it was getting slow).
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Txurce
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Santa Monica CA USA
Mar 1999
time: 05:20
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Aeson, how do you catch up in tech to win the space race when you are so far behind that you have ancient-era units, and the AI is in the industrial age?
Having no answer to this question is one reason why I have yet to try Deity.
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Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:20
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Ok, I started a new game on this map to try and recreate (and explain) what had happened up to about 1500BC (when things finally settled down) for anyone who wants to know how I got started. It didn't work out exactly the same (huts were different and such), but pretty close.
The real game is still at 290AD.
4000BC:
The starting location doesn't look so good 
- on the coast, so the palace won't be centered very well
- only 1 decent food source in the city radius
So I decided to go look for a site further inland (to center) and with more food. I would have gone south (not that it would have helped) but I kind of liked the idea of building a frozen kingdom. My objective is to find a site with at least 2 tiles of 2 food for faster settler builds.
3700BC:
Scouted around the lake with my settler and worker looking for a second food source. I ruled out the fish to the south as I needed at least some production. Worker saw the game and so we're set. Built Persepolis by the lake, with the game available once the borders expand.
Started researching the Alphabet, at 10%.
3250BC:
Borders expand, warrior built. The warrior goes exploring and I use 10% luxuries to keep the city productive.
3150BC:
My worker building a road to the south can see a fish off the coast, looking for another food source nearby. It looks like an isthmus or peninsula south, bad news. My warrior heading towards a hut on a mountain to the north.
3100BC:
Getting the hut was a gamble, but as it was on a mountain I figured I had pretty good odds. It turned out to be barbarians, but my warrior held out only losing 2 HP's and was promoted to elite. There is also a fish off the coast. No other food nearby.
3000BC:
2nd warrior built. I want 3 before building a settler.
2900BC:
The worker see's a whale and game by the southern fish, definitely the second city site.
2800BC:
Found 25 gold in a goody hut, another fish off the coast.
2750BC:
3rd warrior built. Starting the first Settler. Lux increased to 20%.
2650BC:
It's official, I'm on an iceberg. Spot of luck with the 3rd hut, got Ceremonial Burial.
2430BC:
Settler is built, time for more warriors. Already have a road built to the southern site, will only take 2 turns to get there. I can see a purple border across the sea, and am tempted to build on the southern tip of the peninsula just to make contact. I would miss out on all the food though.
2310BC:
First barbs show up, to the east. Pasargadae is founded.
2270BC:
Got an upgrade when the barbs attacked my warrior to the east, no HP's lost. Looking for the encampment.
2330BC:
Another warrior built in Persepolis. Starting on a settler.
2190BC:
Found the eastern barb camp, its on a forest though. Have to attack it anyways.
2150BC:
My veteran warrior didn't even dent the barb camp, ouch!
2110BC:
Warrior built in Pasargadae, building a temple now to expand the borders and be able to use the fish and the whale.
1990BC:
Barb Horse shows up to the east, right next to my warrior. I kill it and take out the barb encampment two turns later. More barbs show up to the west.
1950BC:
Western barb camp spotted, I destroy it the next turn. Finished researching Alphabet, researching Writing at 10%.
1870BC:
Russia builds the collosus, and someone else built the Oracle. I only have built 5 warriors and a settler so far!
1725BC:
Settler in Persepolis built, headed back to the original starting point.
1500BC:
24 barb horses show up from the north, and the Indians build a city to the southwest. At least this time I have contact and can trade all my gold for techs.
I just ran my warriors away from the barbs, and let them sack Persepolis. After that I had enough warriors to keep the whole island scouted.
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Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:20
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Ok, now for the real strategy... some of which even worked! 
The one thing that tundra/coast tiles can compete with is commerce, my holdings having a goodly amount of rivers. Being scientific I debated about whether to go for research or gold. As I didn't have much production, libraries and universities would take a while, so I choose gold.
I bought most of my techs very cheap, India being my best source. China also was giving me techs for Iron, the Americans would sometimes give me a tech for Horses, and eventually I sold my only remaining Iron to India for even more techs. I was amazed at how well this was working, I was usually only 4 or 5 techs behind everyone else on average. This continued until almost through the Middle Ages.
Then I got my big break.
There I was sitting on my iceberg, thinking up some elaborate MPP schemes to allow me to scavenge a few mainland cities and finally start making a mark on the world. I wasn't paying too much attention to the rest of the world, just waiting until someone got to industrialization.
I didn't notice until the Zulu's were down to their last city that just about everyone was at war with them, and they were even with me on tech. Praying that my ships could make it there in time, I sent 4 Immortals to take Zimbabwe, which was on very good terrain.
The Zulu's put up a galant defense, holding off Cavalry, Knights, Riders, and Longbowmen just long enough for me to land my Immortals. A few turns later the city was mine.
I made preperations for a palace jump to the mainland, building several small cities on the iceberg so I could build the FP before jumping my palace.
India came to me and offered a MPP + ROP for only 3gpt, and I took it. They were my closest neighbors so it seemed a good idea. I had no idea what a megalomaniac Ghandi would turn out to be. Thinking back, I should have gotten techs instead of an ROP, which wasn't worth a lot for me, but was the big money part of the deal.
Ghandi immediately started a war with Japan, the closest neighbor to my newly conquered Zulu lands. I sent my 3 remaining Immortals to the south and attacked a former Zulu city that the Japanese were holding. I didn't want to wait until my MPP forced me to declare war. In the meantime, Ghandi organized a multinational coallition to take out the Japanese, just about everyone joined in.
Not satisfied with having everyone fighting the Japanese, Ghandi then proceeded to sign several (probably 20 in 20 turns) military alliances against various civs, and between that and MPP's, almost everyone was at war with everyone in short order. I was dreading being pulled into this by my MPP, but Ghandi offered 4 techs and 300 gold and so I resigned the agreement.
My Immortals were successful in taking Intombe to the south of Zimbabwe, giving me a ready built harbor connection. One of my Immortals became elite, my first upgrade since early on against the barbs. A few turns later my captured workers from the area hooked up the gems and I traded them both away, getting very good deals in return. Zimbabwe had rushed a settler, I was going to disband it and move further north, and build my own new capitol a bit south.
To the west, Japanese cities were being destroyed, being taken over by one nation after another, most being at war with each other. Somehow India was only attacked by 2 of the nations at war with it, Japan and Greece. Greece being far across the sea was no problem, Japan was in the process of being crushed.
My immortals were first to one Japanese city on the coast, only defended by 2 spearmen. In capturing the city my elite immortals were lead by the leader Darius, who would rule my new mainland empire from Dariush Kabir. I admit this is fantastically lucky, my only elite immortal spawning a leader on it's very first fight at elite status. This allowed me to forgo the palace jump and have Darius build the FP on the mainland, saving a lot of turns and forced starvations back home. I recieved democracy about this time, and although I was at war with 2 nations, I figured I could sign peace by the time my anarchy was finished, so the Persians finally went into revolution.
Finally my empire gained some food. The floodplains of the new holdings, combined with hills and mountains, should make for several very productive cities. I may even have a chance for some massive military campaigns once tanks are available. My MPP with India expires in 4 turns, at which time I can make peace with everyone, and watch the carnage from afar. My settlers are reclaiming much of the Japanese lands which have been razed. I just made it into a democracy, and can now buy Industrial Age techs every 4 turns of commerce. Things are starting to look good!
The Kingdom of Darius, 640AD
Last edited by Aeson on 23-06-2002 at 05:52
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Alkis
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Athens, Greece
May 1999
time: 05:20
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by Aeson
I was dreading being pulled into this by my MPP, but Ghandi offered 4 techs and 300 gold and so I resigned the agreement.
Can you please explain this? Ghandi (India) had a MPP with you. When and why did he offered you that? Or did you mean someone else?
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Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:20
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Today I got a few more turns in. These I think will be the most important of the game. I was able to trade my way to 1 tech behind the leaders. I've never really been in this position before, usually I gain parity during the Middle Ages, so it was quite a learning experience.
Japan was still hanging in, but just barely. They were middle of the road tech wise, but a few ahead of me. Once they were down to 2 cities left I started funding their war effort for techs. It was somewhat of a gamble, as I gave almost all of my gold per turn, but with the odds as they were (4 vs 1 on the continent) I didn't think they could hold out much longer. It almost backfired as Japan was able to use my money to buy off 2 opponents, leaving only 2.
I also resigned my MPP with India.  To get the final Japanese tech I needed about 50 more gold per turn, and India was willing to pay 77 for the MPP. I guess it's goign to be another 20 turns of nailbiting, but with the alliances set up as they are now, I should be safe. The only problem may turn out to be forced trade cutoffs or war weariness if I get pulled in for too long.
Japan was eliminated about 5 turns after I made the deals thankfully, giving me 3 techs for less than 1000 gold, and my coal and iron during those turns. Then I bought Refining for 2300 gold from India, trading it for Electricity, Communism, and Scientific Method, it was my first positive tech trade of the whole game. I had been prebuilding ToE, but there still was no chance to get it, as my best production city at the time was size 6 and producing 9 shields. The only tech anyone else has is Replaceable Parts.
I found out that I had 2 oil sources, and another source tantalizingly close in Aztec territory. Until units which use them are available I can't trade them away though. I hope to time it so that I can get to Motorized Transportation about the same time as my new empire reaches a good production capacity. With all the AI's fighting so much, there should be plenty of opportunities for my tanks. China owns most of the center of the continent, a ROP and MPP with them would allow me almost free offensives with no chance for counterattacks on my own land. That's still 7 techs off though, which should allow me to trade away all my oil the first time around.
The only problem I encountered is that one of my deals was broken inadvertantly. The Germans are at war on their own continent, and they lost one of their luxuries they were trading to me, negating my iron deal with them which I had also gotten Espionage with. Now I can only trade per turn for per turn with most of the AI's, which might be a big problem later on. Right now I don't mind as gpt deals are better for me anyways. Once I build up the mainland empire with that money, I should be able to do some of my own research from now on.
The Japanese deals I could see getting a bad rep for (and even then, it wasn't my fault they couldn't keep accepting my money ), but things like this are just silly. It was the Germans who couldn't keep up the deal. An option to continue a deal in spite of part of it being broken would be nice.
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Aeson
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orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:20
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Played a lot last night, made it all the way to 1310AD.
I ended up signing a third straight MPP with India as they offered 350 gpt for it! In 60 turns with them at war with 3+ civs almost constantly, they only once got attacked on their own ground. Ghandi really can play the civs against each other...
After the third MPP was up Ghandi was out of gpt and so I cancelled it, but signed MPP's with China and the Aztecs. Motorized Transportation was coming up and I wanted to hit India hard and fast once it did. Ghandi had saved up 18k gold, so each city taken would pay off nicely. Also with a ROP from China most of his cities would be exposed to quick attacks.
It almost worked out like I'd hoped it would, but a few turns before Motorized Transportation, China attacked the Iroquois. Up till then I had stayed out of all major wars. I had to declare war on the Iroquois, so I sent a little expedition out to the Iroquois island to take their iron city. I took it with Marines and Infantry, but had no chance of holding it. So I gifted it to the Egyptians to save my remaining troops who were teleported back to my iceberg.
The Iroquois signed several alliances against me, almost everyone joined in except my MPP partners. It was a bit scary, as I had 8 or 9 Infantry and that was it.
I bought Motorized Transportation from India and then started pumping out tanks. I had saved up 16k of my own, and bought the tanks in almost all my cities every other turn. I was building about 10 tanks a turn on average.
I noticed a HUGE stack of American infantry headed my way through Chinese territory. I thought China was at war with them, but I guess not. I had to give China one of my 2 oil to get them to sign an alliance. I was hoping that the American troops would attack China instead of me, but they just kept on coming.
By the time they made it to my borders I had taken out a couple Indian cities. I forced the Americans down into the flats by building fortresses on the mountains and manning them with tanks and infantry. Most of my cities were completely empty.
Each turn my tanks would attack, usually killing 1 or 2 infantry each. Still it took me 8 or 9 turns to wipe out the stack. I kept them away from my cities by fortifying units in front of them and allowing an opening off to one side or the other. The just kept marching back and forth trying to get to my cities. I ended up getting 2 great leaders in the hundreds of battles I fought during those turns, one becoming an army, the other rushing the military academy.
I had gone into revolution about this time, as war weariness was getting really bad. My tanks from the iceberg were landed in India, and quickly took a few of their cities. I had terrible luck attacking Dehli though, losing 15 tanks in a row at one point. But my number prevailed in the end, and I razed the Indian capitol. I did catch a bit of a scare when my last oil (trading the other to China still) jumped into Indian territory. I quickly pillaged the roads to it so I wouldn't have to face any tanks, and continued my offensive to reclaim the Oil. I had barely enough tanks to take the last city necessary, losing my tank army and about 20 others. A great leader showed up though, so it was definitely worth it. My first wonder of the game will be the UN of course, not taking any chances that there will be a vote!
Then my MPP's with China and the Aztecs had run their course. I made peace with everyone but the Egyptians, who still won't talk to me. Most of them went to polite or gracious! Only Rome who I never went to war with is still annoyed with me, along with India and the Iroquois because I razed cities of theirs. It really makes no sense.
My wars were quite successful, but they would have been much more so if the American troops hadn't been able to make their way through China. Most of my tanks were held up on that stack, otherwise I could have taken out India completely, and a good chunck of someone else too. The number of wars between civs was astounding to this point. Every civ must have been at war with just about everyone else at the peak, and it's been like that for about 50 turns now.
Babylon had reached the modern era by the end of the war, and I bought the Radio to reach it myself. Then I sold the Radio and Rocketry to everyone who still had money, making most of what I spent rushing tanks back. My reputation is shot though, the MPP induced wars broke a lot of agreements. Not that it should matter now.
Now I'm just building up tanks to upgrade to modern armor. I'll probably have to launch the spaceship before I can complete any sort of conquest or domination, but I'm going to try anyways.
India: Purple
China: Light Blue
Aztecs: Blue/Green
America: Grey
Iroquois: Light Pink
Egyptians: Yellow
Rome: Red
Germany: Blue
Babylon: Dark Blue
Greece: Dark Red
French: Pink
Russians: Brown
English: Orange
Last edited by Aeson on 25-06-2002 at 19:20
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22-06-2002 03:26
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