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Kody
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If life's standing still and your soul's confused
Jun 2003
time: 14:37
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MY year 2101 (Gaians Turn)
The data angels have requested that their password is to be changed.
http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...764#post3102764
Password has been given to Drogue.
PMing to Buster too.
The new save is attached, it has also been given to the Gaians.
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A screenshot of the first 9 squares has been given to all the teams so they can do some inital planning.
Currently looks like the Morgans are going to keep a offsite forum. The other teams are going to this apolyton forums.
 Attachment: acdg3-gaians, 2101.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).
Last edited by Kody on 27-06-2004 at 21:56
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Kody
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If life's standing still and your soul's confused
Jun 2003
time: 14:37
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The morgans pointed out the starting ECs were only 100ECs, when it should be 110ECs for morgan. They decided not to worry too much about the missing 10ECs though.
Last edited by Kody on 30-06-2004 at 06:32
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Kody
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If life's standing still and your soul's confused
Jun 2003
time: 14:37
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Usually people don't complain about it, I guess it was only Minute Mirage's work that actually brought it to the forefront.
Basically they found out that the mod3 beeline they were hoping for had been modified by the tech trading flag. After someone trades with another player the tech-trading flag gets set and the mod3 beeline changes.
The tech trading flag is often inadvertantly set by the way the CMN puts adds a tech in. There's two ways of adjusting tech and one way sets the flag.
My opinion is they have to first argue that this case is a special case since most people in PBEMs had their tech trading flag set and still played on without a restart (admittedly because people previously didn't know). This is the first time in my awareness that someone has actually wanted a restart for this issue.
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Kody
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If life's standing still and your soul's confused
Jun 2003
time: 14:37
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I think it's also because of Enigma heckling them last night about the tech options. He was boasting about how Data Angels got the optimal starting mod3.
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With respect to Buster and Drogue not being able to find the tech-traded option. It's not a visible variable you can set. You need to reload the faction I think to fix it up as what Chaunk said.
I can fix the problem I suppose if it is decided to fix it, don't announce the restart thus holding the turn. We can easily replicate other players moves. Can the starting scenerio be posted in the CMNs forum?
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Drogue
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Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:37
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quote:
Originally posted by HongHu
They only got three available techs according to what Kody posted. If in a normal pbem the Morgans are getting more options, and their options are limited because buster's modifying of the game, then it should be fixed. Althogh it is very hard to fix, then we need to talk about it more.
If it is what Morgan normalling getting in a normal pbem, instead of a customised one, then they should have to live with it. |
I agree. IMHO, buster has played many many PBEMs, and set up many scenarios. It appears that common practice is to add techs by trading, thus setting the tech trade flag. Also, the effects of said addition affect everyone. They change the mod3 table, sure, but then doing it the other way would change the mod3 table for everyone, and some other team may come of worse. It is luck what is available at first, as it is for every other team.
If we restart it, without setting the tech trade flag, and another team comes off worse, they're going to complain, and with good reason. I'm not about to restart the game because a team does not like it's starting tech choices, that are doesn to chance. Especially not when every team knows their tech choices, and thus if a team is worse off, they will complain.
It is obvious that many games are set up like this, it is a common way to do it. There was no agreement before that the tech trade flag should not be set, buster was given free reign, relatively speaking on the scenario, and he decided to set it like this. He is an incredibly experienced player, and so if this is how he always sets up a PBEM, that makes it a common practice. I have never heard of someone complain to him about this (otherwise he would know what it is), so IMHO, it seems like the Morganites have found that their starting tech choices are not what they want, and so have found a reason to try to get them changed.
Bottom line, setting the tech trade flag affects everyone's tech choices, and depending on where you are in the order, it can be good or bad. It is no better or worse a set up than with the tech trade flag unset, and thus if we restarted, and it made another teams worse, they would have exactly the same cause for complain, of "why wasn't the tech trade flag set, it usually is". We agreed buster would set up the scenario, and he has done fantasticaly, IMHO. I don't see a reason to change common practice simply becuse one team happens to have been adversely affected by it. If we'd asked before we started, no-one would have cared, because it would still be chance. They only care because they've lost out, and I'm not restarting the whole game because a team doesn't like the chance part of their start.
Have I missed something, wrt the tech trade flag? I see it as an option, it could have been set, it could have not been set, neither option better than the other, just different. To change something done by chance, like this, in order to benefit one team, would be unfair to the others. It's like saying roll a dice for your start, but if you happen to roll a one, reroll everyone's and take that instead. Sadly their first tech choices are not what they'd have liked. That's the chance part of this game.
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Kody
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If life's standing still and your soul's confused
Jun 2003
time: 14:37
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I would concur with you on that analysis.
To add some additional information, having the tech trade flag set or unset has predictable results for the mod3. So if given the choice they would have asked for tech trade flag not to be set.
Also it's not a global flag rather per faction, I think in the Bear Baiting game I CMNed I inadvertantly set the tech trade flag for 3 of the 7 players. However, CMNs don't specifically look out of that kind of thing and shouldn't be made to, as I think it's an issue of game micromanagement that the players needs to deal with.
With respect to the 10 ECs thing, it means someone needs to get the scenerio and make the adjustment. Then copy the turns that were played so far with exactly with same pod pops etc.
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Drogue
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Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Kody
To add some additional information, having the tech trade flag set or unset has predictable results for the mod3. So if given the choice they would have asked for tech trade flag not to be set. |
Well, they didn't know what number faction they were, before we started, so the tech trade flag could have helped. It doesn't affect the amount of energy they need to research a new tech, does it?
quote:
Originally posted by Kody
Also it's not a global flag rather per faction, I think in the Bear Baiting game I CMNed I inadvertantly set the tech trade flag for 3 of the 7 players. However, CMNs don't specifically look out of that kind of thing and shouldn't be made to, as I think it's an issue of game |
micromanagement that the players needs to deal with.
Ah, is it always bad for it to be set? If it's set for some, and not for others, is that a disadvantage, or rather, would it be known to be a disadvantage before we started? How is it set? When adding extra techs to the AI?
quote:
Originally posted by Kody
With respect to the 10 ECs thing, it means someone needs to get the scenerio and make the adjustment. Then copy the turns that were played so far with exactly with same pod pops etc. |
Nothing's been played so far. If you could change it and give the Gaians the new turn with it changed it would be much appreciated 
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Kody
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If life's standing still and your soul's confused
Jun 2003
time: 14:37
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I need the scenerio to change it, I've been hinting that I don't have it.
quote:
If you could change it and give the Gaians the new turn with it changed it would be much appreciated |
The gaians seem to have done a partial play.
quote:
Ah, is it always bad for it to be set? |
Usually players don't care too much about whether it's set or not, like you said possible good or bad results.
quote:
It doesn't affect the amount of energy they need to research a new tech, does it? |
I don't think it does. I do know that in one of my tests adding an extra tech caused the tech cost to be lower than what it was supposed to be. This hasn't occured in this game as far as I know.
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Kody
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If life's standing still and your soul's confused
Jun 2003
time: 14:37
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Well I think we're in 100% agreement then. They get the 10 ECs, but no change to their techonology. Not that we need agreement since Drogue has veto.
Edit: okay I'll make the nessacary changes, I'll upload within 30 minutes and Drogue double checks. Then he posts it as the official turn.
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Kody
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If life's standing still and your soul's confused
Jun 2003
time: 14:37
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Here's the new save, Drogue.
I've double checked that everything is fine, please triple check quickly then post it to the gaians?
With the gaian turn you can do the following.
*plant one base
*build former, stockpile energy
*move scout west
*move 2nd colony pod west
*press endturn
Attachment: acdg3-gaians, 2101.zip
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).
Last edited by Kody on 30-06-2004 at 19:53
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Kody
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If life's standing still and your soul's confused
Jun 2003
time: 14:37
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Sorry I should have just edited it out completely. Old habits from the ACDGII die hard. It was an automatic response, when I see an error I immediately say something. Fortunately, I had a question asking Drogue about if it was allowed rather than blurting out exactly what I was thinking. Although looking back it wasn't the best thing to do either.
Feint, as in testing them? Or that the mods are playing with them?
Last edited by Kody on 02-07-2004 at 17:25
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Kody
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If life's standing still and your soul's confused
Jun 2003
time: 14:37
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It appears I uploaded the wrong file. I looked at the save file I uploaded and I zipped the older turn. While I find in my trash the newer file. Grr I should have added "revised again" instead of "revised" because I had another file with "revised" from changing the data angel password earlier.
I didn't check it earlier, because I assumed you checked it and I was busy writing newspaper articles.
This prompted me to look at the data angel's turn. They've gotten 2 monoliths, a nut bonus, a unity rover and battle ogre in their first turn.
I'd just like to say that I'm not going to repop their pods for them.
http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...threadid=117916
Last edited by Kody on 02-07-2004 at 17:26
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Kody
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If life's standing still and your soul's confused
Jun 2003
time: 14:37
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Here's the right save.
Attachment: acdg3 gaians - 2101 - with 10 ecs.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).
Last edited by Kody on 02-07-2004 at 17:27
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Drogue
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Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:37
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So we started with the wrong save, again?  I don't know how to check, since it won't let me open it in the scenario editor. How do you check the turn?
Can we edit the turn now, and add the spams, or do we need to start again? If we need to restart, I'll play this and the angels turn, and no need for extra pod pops, since the angels have asked for a replay. Here's the email from Enigma:
quote:
I believe that the Battle Ogre was overpowered, and would have made the game too easy.
I request that I replay Angels 2101 so that this game is more of a challenge than a cake walk.
It would probably be faster to replay the turn than to fish for an ogre. They're like 1 in 50, so you could be replaying for days and not get one.
I'll make no new exploratory moves... not that it matters, but I figure it's best to get in the habit early. |
IMHO, this is the best solution, and along with giving other teams the base co-ordinates of the discovered base, is the fairest course of action, IMHO. They did break the rules, I don't believe they directly meant to so leveling the playing field, combined with a replay that will almost certainly not be as generous, is the best course of action, IMHO.
Any comments/arguments will be greatly appreciated Please see the comment in the Angel thread, specifically here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...63#post3115177.
Thanks
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Drogue
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Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:37
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Method: I am going to bed now, I need sleep for work tomorrow morning. Moreover, I won't be going home after work tomorrow, so won't be at my computer until saturday. Therefore, I am hereby authorising you to play the new Gaians turn, exactly as before (see Kody's orders), and then forward the turn to Enigma. Engima will replay exactly as he did last time, and I'll check over the weekend that he has.
If you can't do it, please post, and Kody will do, though as Mod, I'd rather it was you, for legitimacy. Post the turn on the Angels forum, not the main one, if you could.
Many thanks. Hopefully this is now fine, and we can get it properly started. I will release the co-ordinates of the base they found, to each faction in private, over the weekend.
All sound good?
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Kody
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If life's standing still and your soul's confused
Jun 2003
time: 14:37
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quote:
So we started with the wrong save, again? I don't know how to check, since it won't let me open it in the scenario editor. How do you check the turn?
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You have to open each turn up as a player, you can't scenario edit anymore.
quote:
Method: I am going to bed now, I need sleep for work tomorrow morning. Moreover, I won't be going home after work tomorrow, so won't be at my computer until saturday. Therefore, I am hereby authorising you to play the new Gaians turn, exactly as before (see Kody's orders), and then forward the turn to Enigma. Engima will replay exactly as he did last time, and I'll check over the weekend that he has.
If you can't do it, please post, and Kody will do, though as Mod, I'd rather it was you, for legitimacy. Post the turn on the Angels forum, not the main one, if you could.
Many thanks. Hopefully this is now fine, and we can get it properly started. I will release the co-ordinates of the base they found, to each faction in private, over the weekend.
All sound good?
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I agree with Method or you to playing the turn. I feel I've been taking too much of a modship role when I should be looking at activity and roleplay issues more.
Last edited by Kody on 02-07-2004 at 17:28
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27-06-2004 21:51
It would be interesting to see what kind of a structure Gaians will have. 
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