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Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
Deity
Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 09:30 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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Vichy France

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 20:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Xeones
What about the flag? Do you all remember the announcement of the New and Improved Iraqi flag? Y'know? The one that looked somewhat like the Isreali flag?

Well in all the photos I see of the turnover ceremony, they're standing in front of rows of Saddam's Iraqi Flag! Ack! I guess the new sovereign govt made their first choice?


You need to start reading the news more carefully. The other flag was only a proposed flag that was put forward by one member of the Iraqi Governing Council. All of the IGC would have had to unanously voted for it in order for the flag to change. Since that never would have happened it was stupid to even propose a flag change to begin with.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
time: 21:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 20:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Case
Hey, call me crazy, but hasn't Iraq been under martial law for about 15 months now? It doesn't seem to be working very well.


Really? It has? You must have some extra secret information because in nearly seven months of being here in Iraq I've never seen nor head about martial law being in place.

(Even through most of the occupation the police and ICDC [National Guard] have made up the majority of the security forces and everyone has had a right to trial. Martial Law would/could mean the suspension of the right to trail.)

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 20:53
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun


Why are you addressing me with this? Seems like for the most part, you and I already agree.


It was not addressed to you:

To MrFun some assumes i am carrying out the act of MrFunning.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
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Sep 2001
time: 21:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 21:01
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
i doubt you realize you're a smal minority in the world who DOESNT believe it was about oil.


Paiktis: Let's assume for one second that you are right and that the US/UK only cares about the oil and nothing else. By fighting a war and paying for reconstruction we are well over $1 trillion in costs already. If all we cared about is getting as much oil at the lowest cost possible then wouldn't we have simply bought the oil from Saddam? He would have gladely sold it because Iraq has nothing else to sell.

The very fact that we didn't do that says that there were other factors and considerations at work here then just the simple desire for oil which we could have bought any way.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 22:01
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quote:
By fighting a war and paying for reconstruction we are well over $1 trillion in costs already.


Much of which was paid to US companies and the rest to military suppliers. Gotta love that corporate welfare!!!

Stay safe Oerdin: I don't want to see you die to benefit the pigs.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 22:22
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I am sorry, but in no way are we over 1 Trillion. We are not even up to 400 billion yet.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:37
  Old Post 01-07-2004 07:10 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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The idea that it was about oil is ridiculous.

MrFun is offline MrFun
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Nov 2000
time: 23:37
  Old Post 01-07-2004 09:00 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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You keep telling yourself that, Teddie.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:37
  Old Post 01-07-2004 09:09 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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You keep telling yourself that, MrGay.

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
Deity
Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:37
  Old Post 01-07-2004 09:15 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
The idea that it was about oil is ridiculous.


Sure it is Ted

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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Jan 1970
time: 21:37
  Old Post 01-07-2004 09:17 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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not

In that case we should invade Venzuela, Saudi Arabia, and Mexico.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:37
  Old Post 01-07-2004 09:23 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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And what you geniuses are forgetting is that:

1) The US gets most of it's oil from South America
2) The US is signing deals with former Soviet nations to secure new oil supplies. This is a plan to circumvent the entire middle east.

Get educated

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:37
  Old Post 01-07-2004 09:25
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Such deep analysis, Ted.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:37
  Old Post 01-07-2004 09:29 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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Such a deep response, Urban Ranger.

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
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Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:37
  Old Post 01-07-2004 09:36 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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we have to keep it all at a level your avatar will understand.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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Jan 1970
time: 21:37
  Old Post 01-07-2004 09:38 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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nobody cares

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
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Jan 2002
time: 06:37
  Old Post 01-07-2004 12:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
not

In that case we should invade Venzuela, Saudi Arabia, and Mexico.


Sudan would be a better choice

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 01-07-2004 12:13 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
And what you geniuses are forgetting is that:

1) The US gets most of it's oil from South America


The US gets most of its oil from North America actually.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
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  Old Post 01-07-2004 12:14 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
And what you geniuses are forgetting is that:

1) The US gets most of it's oil from South America
2) The US is signing deals with former Soviet nations to secure new oil supplies. This is a plan to circumvent the entire middle east.


The rest of the world is tapping its supplies much, much faster than the mideast is. In 20 years we're going to see a lot more production of oil (as a percentage) coming out of the ME than we do today.

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:37
  Old Post 01-07-2004 13:20
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That might prove difficult. We are already nearing the extraction rate limits of current technology.

It's not just a matter of sinking new wells or building new pumps. Like aquifers, there is a maximum sustainable rate at which you can draw oil from reserves; you go over that rate at the risk of damaging or shutting down that reserve.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:37
  Old Post 02-07-2004 10:51 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse


The US gets most of its oil from North America actually.


Well duh

I was talking about imported oil.

Happy?

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 02-07-2004 10:52 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse


The rest of the world is tapping its supplies much, much faster than the mideast is. In 20 years we're going to see a lot more production of oil (as a percentage) coming out of the ME than we do today.


Speculative

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:37
  Old Post 03-07-2004 06:35 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Human Rights Under Allawi's Iraq Get a bigger avatar today!

quote:
US military police raid Iraqi detention centre to stop abuse of prisoners

Confusion over armed soldiers' intervention

Peter Beaumont in Baghdad
Wednesday June 30, 2004
The Guardian

American military police yesterday raided a building belonging to the Iraqi ministry of the interior where prisoners were allegedly being physically abused by Iraqi interrogators.

The raid appeared to be a violation of the country's new sovereignty, leading to angry scenes inside the ministry between Iraqi policemen and US soldiers.

The military police, who had been told of abuse, seized an area known as the Guesthouse just outside the ministry's main building. They disarmed the Iraqi policemen and at one stage threatened to set free prisoners whose handcuffs they removed, according to Iraqi officials.

The arrival of a second group of US military police and a more senior officer led to an argument between the two groups of military policemen over who had command authority for the raid.

Iraqi ministry of interior officials admitted that around 150 prisoners taken during a raid four days before in the Betawain district of Baghdad had been physically abused during their arrest and subsequent questioning.

The men were captured in the first big Iraqi-led anti-crime and anti-terrorism operation, which took place a few days before the transfer of power, with US military police in support and using US satellite images.

Senior Iraqi officers described those captured as "first class murderers, kidnappers and terrorists with links to al-Ansar" - a militant group in the former Kurdish no-fly zone - who had all admitted to "at least 20 crimes while being questioned".

According to an al-Jazeera television crew, who had been filming the prisoners when the US military police conducted their raid, most of the detainees were blindfolded, with their hands cuffed behind their backs. One prisoner was so weak, from dehydration, that the US military policemen fitted an intravenous drip to rehydrate him.

Although none of the American officers involved in the raid would talk to the Guardian, one of the soldiers involved in the raid said that it had been launched after claims that prisoners were being abused.

US military spokesmen would not comment. "We can't confirm that this took place," a spokesman said.

One of the prisoners bared his back after his initial arrest to reveal open welts allegedly caused by baton and rubber hoses.

A bodyguard for the head of criminal intelligence, Hussein Kamal, admitted that the beatings had taken place.

Nashwan Ali - who said his nickname was Big Man - said: "A US MP asked me this morning what police division I was in. I said I was in criminal intelligence.

"The American asked me why we had beaten the prisoners. I said we beat the prisoners because they are all bad people. But I told him we didn't strip them naked, photograph them or **** them like you did."


The clear evidence of human rights abuses in the ministry building, which western advisers said they were not aware was being used for interrogations, raises serious questions over what authority the US and other multinational forces have to intervene if they suspect human rights abuses.

Although the new interim government of prime minister Ayad Allawi has warned that it may impose "drastic measures" - including invoking emergency powers to combat the worsening security situation in the country - advisers from the former coalition say they have been at pains to train Iraqi officers in human rights. This takes up one of their eight weeks' training.

One western police adviser said he had no idea that the ministry itself was being used for questioning suspects. "It sounds rather like the bad old days," he said.


Liberation.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:37
  Old Post 03-07-2004 06:46 Visit Ramo's homepage!
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Forgot the link:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Stor...1250526,00.html

 
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