05-08-2004 02:08									#271
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

yeah but not just with the battles, mainly with the surrounding land. A was terrible, mainly tundra. If I'd have chosen to explore north early on rather than toward the Celts, things may have been different, but not much. I also seemed to loose a heap more than normal units to raging barbs.

As for B - there was slightly better land towards the Arabs, but mainly plains. The game seemed to swing against me when I lost my 3rd city (my iron city no less) to the arabs in a culture flip. What are the chances that so early on??

Another of my big dissapointments with Civ3 is how much luck plays in the game, and how badly it is distributed.

anyway, back to you.

	05-08-2004 03:00									#272
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

yep, civ3 is still a lot about luck... if i compare your starting location in ironciver to moonbars for example... he had food bonuses, lots of grassland and was not stuck on the tip of the peninsula.

don't forget that against barbarians you only get offensive advantage, none in defence. i always send out lots and lots of warriors and spearmen to clear away barbarian camps when before i'd expect the hordes coming (short before the era change).

lets hope civ4 has less luck in it...

	05-08-2004 03:15									#273
	Tired of ads?

A: no battles, just 1 pillaging action

B: no battles either


btw:
- in A the lands NW really would have been a lot better. shows how important early scouting is.
- in B, your land would be great for agricultural (desert like plains) and industrial (faster workers for all that irrigation)
i have loads of desert too in B, but it doesn't harm me as much as it did you. and i very soon sent out a large worker taskforce to convert forrest and mainly jungle into grassland.

	05-08-2004 11:16									#274
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

back to you, no battles.

I did explore North in A but the warriors got killed by barbs so never got very far. I concentrated more East where I thought I'd have to cut off the Celts. It would have been nice to have iron - horses are okay but lack that penetrative punch that you so often need.

I had a great online game with Mickeyj once. He had more land but my land was better, and it allowed me to catch him up during the industrial ages.

But well done. I think your war experiment would have backfired if I had better land. Definitely in A, if I had iron I think I’d have wiped out those celts before you were ready to strike. In B, I took the arab cities but they didn’t grow quick enough because of all the plains – also I had a brain explosion which led to me forgetting your galleys travel 3, not 2 tiles, and so you managed to land troops and grab my capital.

	05-08-2004 14:32									#275
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

A:
- vet knight vs. fort vet spear in istanbul, wins with 1HP left

B:
- vet treb bombards edrine: no damage
- vet treb bombards edrine: 1HP damage to spear
- vet knight vs. 3HP spear (1 treb free shot): wins with 1HP loss
==> edrine captured
- reg knight vs. fort reg spear: wins, 2HP loss
==> izmit captured
- vet knight vs. fort vet spear: retreats, 1HP damage
- vet knight vs. fort 3HP vet spear: wins, no HP loss
==> uskandar captured

	05-08-2004 14:42									#276
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

to be honest, your resistance in A is a lot fiercer than in B. the last turn you had 1 single spearman in each city and i can see you capital defended by a warrior.
i know i slaughtered a big part of your army when taking istanbul earlier on and the swordsmen who didn't manage to successfully counterattack, but i didn't expect it to be easy back there!

oh well, B looks like if it is decided and A... well, it going to be difficult, because my knights are gradually being produced and without pikemen there's not much you can do.

btw, speaking of iron: i had to be very aggressive to get iron in both. in the B game, i had to kill 1 dutch settler and a city, then place a settler of mine right beside the amsterdam borders and poprush culture (add workers, poprush, etc). in A, i had to send out a settler very far north to place in on the iron spot... again culture-rushing needed. and the volcano actually cut me off from iron for quite some time. i think nearly 20 turns (send workers there, clean pollution on hills, road the tile again).

but in the end i still had the better situation than you.


btw: if i had known that you were so near in B, i would have tried an archer rush

quote: Originally posted by Andydog back to you, no battles. I did explore North in A but the warriors got killed by barbs so never got very far. I concentrated more East where I thought I'd have to cut off the Celts. It would have been nice to have iron - horses are okay but lack that penetrative punch that you so often need. I had a great online game with Mickeyj once. He had more land but my land was better, and it allowed me to catch him up during the industrial ages. But well done. I think your war experiment would have backfired if I had better land. Definitely in A, if I had iron I think I’d have wiped out those celts before you were ready to strike. In B, I took the arab cities but they didn’t grow quick enough because of all the plains – also I had a brain explosion which led to me forgetting your galleys travel 3, not 2 tiles, and so you managed to land troops and grab my capital.

	05-08-2004 14:43									#277
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

110bc to you btw

	06-08-2004 02:01									#278
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

well back to you, but yup, both have been decided. I couldn't compete with growth and production and you deserve both games. Nicely played.

I don't mind carrying on if you want to continue against the AI, otherwise we could start another..?

	06-08-2004 04:05									#279
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

A:
- catapult fails
- elite medinf vs. fort vet spear: wins, 5HP loss
- vet medinf vs. fort vet spear: wins, 1HP loss
- elite sword vs. fort vet horse: wins, 2HP loss
- vet medinf vs fort vet warrior: wins, 2HP loss
- vet horse vs vet hors: wins, 3HP loss
==> istanbul taken
2 workers captured

	06-08-2004 04:13									#280
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

B:
- knight takes undefended iznik

oh well.. your other cities really do look toast in B. and in A, i can see another undefended city.

if you want, you can resign, or play on... whatever you prefer! i may finish the game against the AI, but it will be a bit dull as i'm dominating in both games.

	06-08-2004 04:18									#281
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

about another game: i'd be willing to participate in another one (maybe not 2 more). but i really want to get au601 moving. the other game would have to be secondary and only be played when waiting for the au601 game

but as for the next game: how can we guarantee equality?

another idea would be playing together against a sid AI. could you imagine that?

anyway... thanks for 2 good games! pity the differences were too big to get a good comparison!

	06-08-2004 12:10									#282
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

playing together against the AI on Sid doesn't grab me that much, mainly because I feel that I haven't yet had a reasonable chance to beat you.

I wouldn't mind giving the Iroquios a crack. How about standard map, continents, everything else random?

	06-08-2004 18:28									#283
	Support Apolyton

ok, lets forget about the sid idea.

you do have 2 games where you'll probably beat me: flawed and swift... but imho we won't ever get anywhere near a battle because it's moving waaaay to slow

iroquois you say?
i'll have to think about how i'd like to react to that. maybe celts, maybe and ultra-early UU, maybe greeks or zulu... i'll get back to you

are you sure about continents? if we should happen to be on different ones and have fairly even land, the game will take forever, definatly end of industrial...

however, that would be interesting against you

	06-08-2004 19:14									#284
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The game would take a while, but they all do don't they?

I've always wanted to try out modern warfare on another human, hence the continents idea. I'm hoping we'll be on different ones!

	06-08-2004 20:14									#285
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

we could get someone to check a map that we're on different continents.

heck, i'd even let you look at my starting location to check if it's ok... as long as we're on different continents (you far east, me far west, or the other way round), i can survive knowing that you have knowledge of my capital

	06-08-2004 20:26									#286
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

We probably don't need to look at each others start location - we could get away with ensuring one of us is east and the other west. We wouldn't need the map to be set up either using this method, but it may take a few re-starts.

I reckon you'll end up choosing the celts.

	06-08-2004 20:47									#287
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

if we are on different continents, i'm probably going to chose the dutch

	06-08-2004 21:16									#288
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

bring it on

	06-08-2004 21:46									#289
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

shall we start straight away? or should we have a break of a few days?

either way: this time only 1 game

will you set it up?

	06-08-2004 22:18									#290
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

okay I'll give it a go, but there were problems last time.. we'll see what happens.

	06-08-2004 22:45									#291
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

4000 BC -->

I'm SW

	06-08-2004 23:03									#292
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

i'm north east... so perfect

my start isn't really that great (no luxes, no food bonus), but i think i'll hang in here... at least for a while.

what difficulty did you set it to?

	06-08-2004 23:06									#293
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

3950bc to you, btw....

shall we keep it in this thread?

	06-08-2004 23:11									#294
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

yeah keep this thread.

My start wasn't that great either.

Difficulty is Monarch.

	06-08-2004 23:30									#295
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

3900bc

	06-08-2004 23:40									#296
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

and back

	06-08-2004 23:46									#297
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

3850bc

	06-08-2004 23:52									#298
	Remove this text

-->

	07-08-2004 00:09									#299
	Put an end to popups!

3800bc

most continent maps have 2 similarily equal continents. so lets hope ours are equal too. me in the east and you in the west

	07-08-2004 10:42									#300
	Increase the size of your Attachments

yeah, hopefully it'll shape up for an interesting late era stand off!

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