11-08-2004 20:37									#331
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Well, I finally had to look up the name, so this doesn't really count, but since no one else seems even remotely close to getting it Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals. Reminds me I have to go back and actually beat that someday...

	11-08-2004 21:24									#332
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Duh, I remember that one now....NOT!

	11-08-2004 22:49									#333
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Never heard of it.

	12-08-2004 02:39									#334
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Gosh darn it. I almost never look at this thread thanks to the fact it's generally obscure Amiga titles I missed because I was too young (and sticking to the good stuff, i.e. Civilization, Railroad Tycoon, etc.), and I come in the day somebody else Googles one that I could figure out.

Lufia II was a pretty good game for the puzzles in the dungeons, which were wonderfully designed. The plot as a whole didn't entirely suck, it was just the things that strung you along from town-dungeon-town-dungeon and insuring that you couldn't go to the next town. It was fast and fun.

Lufia I, which I downloaded on a lark afterwards to see what it was like, is to be avoided at all costs, though.

Last edited by SnowFire on 12-08-2004 at 02:46

	12-08-2004 11:22									#335
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Ok, ZargonX... give us something that the PC crowd (Atari, Commodore, etc.) from the 1980s can actually get.

	12-08-2004 11:25									#336
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Oh, and long time no see, SnowFire.

	12-08-2004 13:25									#337
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Yup, it's Lufia II. Great puzzling fun.

	12-08-2004 13:46									#338
	Inflate your Upload Space

Choose another game then Buck. But please make it one that we don't have to Google this time. Infact, if you could make it one that Dr Spikey has to Google, but no-one else does then that would be better.

	12-08-2004 17:33									#339
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Oh, I thought ZargonX was going to do it. I've had four hours of sleep (rough night – work early) so I'm not sure I'm up to it creativity-wise today. Tell you what, I'll see if I can think of something but if Zargon (or SnowFire) wants to get in there first, let them be my guest.

	12-08-2004 18:19									#340
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Okay, thought of one. Unfortunately I think Spikey might know it, but you can't have everything.

Clue #1: I consider the game one of the best three dimensional implementations of its previously always-2D genre. Rather surprisingly, it's also one of the first ones.

	12-08-2004 20:18									#341
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Super Mario 64

	12-08-2004 21:37									#342
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I actually have one appropriate for this crowd if nobody gets Bucks's 2nd attempt.

Hmm.... not going to be something like Wolfenstein 3D, that hasn't aged well... er... Populous? (It's sorta 3D...)

	12-08-2004 22:31									#343
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Syndicate Wars

	12-08-2004 22:57									#344
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by duke o' york Choose another game then Buck. But please make it one that we don't have to Google this time. Infact, if you could make it one that Dr Spikey has to Google, but no-one else does then that would be better.

Have to be another console game then.

	13-08-2004 10:17									#345
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Gah, I hate console games. I never know any of them.

For my guess:

Dungeon Master (the original 3D dungeon adventure game...for Atari ST and Amiga)

Interestingly, as a puzzle and combat game, it's STILL one of the best dungeon adventure games out there. I haven't played it in years, of course; owing to the fact that the disk drive on my old Atari ST went dead ages ago.

	13-08-2004 12:23									#346
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Clue #2: Rather than try to design a 3D (or pseudo-3D) game engine that was specific for the genre, the PC game in question borrowed (with minor modifications) a tried-and-tested 3D perspective from another type of game. I thought it worked really well, but the idea has not been used since as far as I know.

	13-08-2004 12:44									#347
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Alpha Centauri

...if that can be called 3D?

	13-08-2004 18:28									#348
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Clue #3: I suppse the last clue is a bit wrong in some ways. What I mean is: the general perspective itself is really old, having been used since the genre began in the eighties. 3D versions of the general perspective existed for several years before this game came out, but they were all a bit sterile and dull... What this game did was take a specific perspective, a way of moving and a feel, and apply it to the genre in question. It was great – it had life like the best 2D games, and the immersion of the specific perspective in a good combination.

	13-08-2004 20:06									#349
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

*ouch!* That last clue hurt my brain

	13-08-2004 20:15									#350
	Increase Your PM Length

Does anyone even have an idea of what kind of game it is, and what platform?

International Superstar Soccer

(despite the fact that this is not a Buck type of game, to the best of my knowledge)

	13-08-2004 20:26									#351
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I'm thinking of Gauntlet over here. But I've yet to come up with a more recent name. Alien Breed?

	13-08-2004 22:23									#352
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ultima Underworld?

	15-08-2004 00:23									#353
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I think you've got it Zargon, although it still doesn't quite fit- the Gold Box games (and a few others) had RPGs in that old cruddy 3D dungeon-crawling perspective, but I guess perhaps Buck is considering UU a different genre. But then it WOULD have been repeated, in games like System Shock, if we're thinking of it more as an adventure. Ack.

I'd be tempted to say Grim Fandango, but that WAS done again, in Escape from Monkey Island, so that can't be it.

	15-08-2004 09:53									#354
	Suffering from ads?

Betrayal at Krondor?

	16-08-2004 01:36									#355
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Not my type of game? Remember that the first Name That Game I guessed was SWOS! I definately like ISS but then there have definately been third-person-perspective, pseudo-isometric, restricted-camera, 2D-horizontal-plane-unit-movement, gravity-modelling 3D sports games before and since.

That should tell you something about the kind of perspective I'm after.

Should I give up on the perspective issue? Nah. It seems to leave it so open. Let's see.

Clue #4: The genre this game is in had, for much of the nineties at least, two distinct schools of game design, vaguely related to their associated perspectives. For some reason the two perspectives inspired greatly different game types, partly because of the companies that used them but also because one was very movement friendly and encouraged playfulness from the get go while the other tended to supply distinct, static vistas.

This game's engine, in a stroke of genius, takes another genres movement (which is, at least in theory, done from the same general perspective as the more static of the two schools) and combines it with the playful nature of the other school. The result is a game that places itself very clearly in the playful tradition both by association and by breaking down the standstill or floating dullness previously associated with the perspective.

	16-08-2004 07:11									#356
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

yes, well, that makes it all so clear now.

	16-08-2004 07:57									#357
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

We need to figure out what the heck genre Buck is talking about. It's a PC game, so those genres...

Strategy? Nah. Strategy games aren't playful and free.

Space shooter? I guess he could mean kind of a 2D Defender style vs. a in-the-cockpit vs. a third person perspective, but by the 90's, the old side scrolling shooters were pretty well dead, and were always stronger in the Arcades than the PC anyway.

Platformer? Maybe, but I haven't the faintest clue what the two perspectives would be.

Graphic Adventure? Already tried this, I think. Maybe somebody more familiar with 90's graphic adventures could help out, I only know the LucasArts ones. Was there any particularly creative 3D one here?

	16-08-2004 08:50									#358
	Tired of ads?

Yeah, I have a feeling once we nail the genre, we'll get the game about 2 seconds later...

	16-08-2004 10:22									#359
	Tired of ads?

Clue #5: The genre the game borrows its viewpoint from is the gravity-bound 2D-movement-on-the-horizontal-plane first-person 3D perspective of old, sprite-based FPS games like Doom. In fact, if the engine wasn't proprietary it could just as well be the Duke Nukem 3D engine or something. Of course, the "action" is way different, so the control system is rather changed. But the movement, that is intact.

	16-08-2004 13:37									#360
	Remove this text

I have a sneaking suspicion that graphical adventure may be in the right direction, but my knowledge of early 90's graphical adventures is pretty slim.