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Darsnan is offline Darsnan
King
New Syracuse, Beta Prime
Dec 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 06:58
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Borehole discussion thread Support Apolyton

quote:
Are CMNs allow to point out strategic mistakes Drogue?


The above comment by Kody, using the word "strategic", for some reason immediately made me look to see if we were building our first base on a potential borehole location. With the realization that this was not the case, I sort of let Kody's comment pass without comment.
However, as I think about it moreso, why one other terrain aspect we should consider for future base placement is the ability to build boreholes within base perimeters. Do others concur?


D

smacksim is offline smacksim
King
Deputy Chairman of the Council of Lords of Gaia
Feb 2004
time: 00:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 09:40
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Ah well, Kody all but admitted that the strategic mistake was building the base before exploring the fungus, which would have inhibited a MW.

As to borehole placement, definately figure the grid as soon as possible, though it's my practice to just work around the initial 2-4 bases if they impede.

-S

Illuminatus is offline Illuminatus
SMAC Stories Editor
Salvaging Unity Fusion Core
Jul 2003
time: 06:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 13:01 Visit Illuminatus<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Nevermind Kody - he always big strategic mistakes (no offense Kody). However, I anticipated that we won't find a MW anyway, so it would not make any difference.
We should also talk about base spacing (again), to plan for Borehole grids.

Kody is offline Kody
Emperor
If life's standing still and your soul's confused
Jun 2003
time: 14:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 13:29
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Mindworm generation in first time explored fungus is more like 1/3 in the tests I've done. (Opposed to 0 next to base and something really small in base raidus.) So I reckon there was a good chance of finding a mindworm.

Drogue is offline Drogue
Emperor
Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 13:35 Visit Drogue's homepage!
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Either way, I did rule that Kody making game-playing suggestions is not allowed. RP and chat is one thing, but suggestions on how to play from CMNs are not good, IMHO.

On an RP front, I always played the Gaians without boreholes, at la STEP. But that's me and my RP heavy play

Illuminatus is offline Illuminatus
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Salvaging Unity Fusion Core
Jul 2003
time: 06:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 13:40 Visit Illuminatus<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Well Kody won't make any more suggestions, will you ? Drogue how did you then play Believers?

Chaos Theory is offline Chaos Theory

King
Missouri / Misery; CC
Oct 2002
time: 04:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 16:21 Visit Chaos Theory<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

We can't afford to let future borehole considerations delay our first few bases' placement, or impair the terrain they can immediately work. The land itself can be moved to accomodate boreholes on slopes, and missing out on a few overall isn't as important as plopping down bases ASAP.

Kody is offline Kody
Emperor
If life's standing still and your soul's confused
Jun 2003
time: 14:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 16:52
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I'll be good

Drogue is offline Drogue
Emperor
Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 17:02 Visit Drogue's homepage!
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Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by obstructor
Drogue how did you then play Believers?

I didn't, usually. When I do, I just try and 'convert' as many people as possible, before they lose their souls

Kody is offline Kody
Emperor
If life's standing still and your soul's confused
Jun 2003
time: 14:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 20:32
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Inflate your Upload Space

Swiss Cheese

Illuminatus is offline Illuminatus
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Jul 2003
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  Old Post 30-06-2004 20:49 Visit Illuminatus<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Matter has been discussed, case closed. If you wish to pursue it further, you have your own forum to do so.

smacksim is offline smacksim
King
Deputy Chairman of the Council of Lords of Gaia
Feb 2004
time: 00:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 21:05
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Yes well anyways.........

Boreholes and Gaia don't go well together in a role-play sense at all. There's really no excuse for planet loving Gaians to go digging City-cized holes in the mantle. If everyone else agreed, we could go for an all forest or all forest-farm-specialist approach with the occasional mine for building SPs. Blake did some calculations on variations sans Boreholes at one point. But it is perfectly feasible. I'd love to win without Boreholes and then show off our map.

-Smack

Drogue is offline Drogue
Emperor
Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 21:08 Visit Drogue's homepage!
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Play as RP

Snowflake is offline Snowflake
Princess
falling, once again
Apr 2003
time: 23:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 21:19
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Did you read my post on this at the offsite forum? Too bad we've lost it and I didn't save what I typed.

Anyhow I was advocating another way to RP the Gaians.

In other word, the planet is our friend. We maximize its potential. Employ those mindworms! Use boreholes and encourage fungas pops! Raise water level to submerge the enemies! They use the advanced techs to fight us. We use the planet to fight them. Something like that.

Illuminatus is offline Illuminatus
SMAC Stories Editor
Salvaging Unity Fusion Core
Jul 2003
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  Old Post 30-06-2004 21:59 Visit Illuminatus<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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Put an end to popups!

We should carefully decide upon this. I am for RP, but if we are weakened by lack of them, we will be doomed. And there is not much RP if we are dead.

smacksim is offline smacksim
King
Deputy Chairman of the Council of Lords of Gaia
Feb 2004
time: 00:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 22:33
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quote:
Originally posted by HongHu
Did you read my post on this at the offsite forum? Too bad we've lost it and I didn't save what I typed.

Anyhow I was advocating another way to RP the Gaians.

In other word, the planet is our friend. We maximize its potential. Employ those mindworms! Use boreholes and encourage fungas pops! Raise water level to submerge the enemies! They use the advanced techs to fight us. We use the planet to fight them. Something like that.


That's meta-playing though, not real role-play. I think a planet-friendly faction would conclude that angry MWs mean they are pissing planet off and should stop. But I totally agree that it's a good Gaian strategy to win the game. On this matter I'm willing to go either way. I wouldn't mind at all playing the Gaians to the hilt for RP purposes, win or lose. Its fun to do so. If we want to win and role-play in hindsight, that's fine too.

-S

Chaos Theory is offline Chaos Theory

King
Missouri / Misery; CC
Oct 2002
time: 04:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 22:34 Visit Chaos Theory<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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Since our planet rating is always positive, everything we do is green! We drop green boreholes and when we provoke fungal pops, we meant to!

Snowflake is offline Snowflake
Princess
falling, once again
Apr 2003
time: 23:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 22:46
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Well I'm not a Gaian now so I can't take part in your decision of roleplay/gameplay style. I was merely pointing out there is another way to interpret the Gaians, as what I laid out when I was a Gaian.

Others are afraid of the planet. They are afraid of the fungus and the mindworms. But the Gaians love the planet, they love the fungus and the mindworms. Fungus is native to the planet, forests are foreign. Ecodamage is earth thinking, not planet thinking. When fungus pops, others think the planet is angry. But Gaians encourages fungus pops, they eat fungus, use fungas, they even plant fungus. They do not seek a green planet, they seek a red planet. Others fear mindworms. They panic when mindworms spung out. The Gaians cheers when they meet mindworms. They capture mindworms, use mindworms, hunt mindworms, they even brood mindworms.

I know this is novice thinking about the Gaians. Perhaps nobody has ever viewed Gaians this way. But if you do not want to lag behind in game and still want to roleplay the Gaians, this could be an interesting way to go.

smacksim is offline smacksim
King
Deputy Chairman of the Council of Lords of Gaia
Feb 2004
time: 00:37
  Old Post 30-06-2004 22:51
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I agree HongHu, that this is a convenient way to view the Gaians. I'll take this discussion over to the general Gaian strategy thread....
Strategy Thread

-S

Last edited by smacksim on 30-06-2004 at 23:18

Hydro is offline Hydro
King
Winfield, IL, USA
Jun 1999
time: 05:37
  Old Post 05-07-2004 02:13
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I will have to respectfully disagree with our former Gaian H2, and now valued moderator. In my opinion there are certain types of terraforming that are counter to a Gaian philosophy, and those are they types of terraforming that cause large amounts of terraforming eco damage. This is Planet’s way of letting you know that you are transgressing and that it is annoyed, and that if you don’t stop it will ameliorate the problem with a little fungal bloom that wipes out some or all of the offending terraforming.

By contrast, forests (although non-native to Planet) are actually good terraforming. Earth and Chiron life can and will co-exist. Just because a forest is seen on the map doesn’t mean that Chiron life has been wiped out. What it means is that there are enough forest-related resources to be useful to humans. These resources are augmented with the advent of Tree Farms, and then even more when the Chiron-related life in these sectors is harnessed by Hybrid Forests.

Below is my list of good, low, moderate, and high ecodamage terraforming. I’d suggest that good and low terraforming be allowed wherever needed, moderate terraforming done with discretion, and that high ecodamage terraforming not be built without a very good reason:

Good: forests, kelp
Low: tidal harnesses, solar collectors, roads
Moderate: mines
High: soil enrichers, boreholes, moisture condensers

Winning is one thing, but if we are to role-play Gaians that act like Morganites then what is the point?

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