02-07-2004 00:53									#31
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quote: Hmm... possilby by dictating and imposing libertarian views on others? Sound like anyone you know, Agathon?

thats not possible - the only thing you are 'enforcing' is freedom, but since you cannot force someone to be free, only give him the option to be, you are not forcing libertarianism on anybody.

	02-07-2004 00:55									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon How so. I'm not disputing that there are gay fascists or gay fundies. I'm just wondering how it's possible for someone to reconcile them without suffering from some sort of mental illness.

*case in point me*

	02-07-2004 00:59									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon How so. I'm not disputing that there are gay fascists or gay fundies. I'm just wondering how it's possible for someone to reconcile them without suffering from some sort of mental illness.

It's fairly simple -- they never come to accept the fact they themselves are gay so they continue to be a religious-right bigot or a fascist.

	02-07-2004 01:01									#34
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Why not? One can argue that gays are just as part of the nation as straights are and that the nation ends at ethnicity. Gays aren't deviant culture, but are part of the national culture. I don't see why homosexual MUST be inconsistent with Fascism, seeing that Fascism goes well beyond conservativism and is a very radical ideology.

	02-07-2004 01:02									#35
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exactly, Imran -- there is no ideology in which there are no gay adherents

	02-07-2004 01:29									#36
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Well that's not true. I don't think Anti-homosexual ideologies (like Falwell religions) have gay adherents.

	02-07-2004 01:57									#37
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Masochistic gays?

	02-07-2004 02:02									#38
	Re: Homosexuals and Fascism (article from A&L) Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Agathon THIS IS NOT A TROLL THREAD AIMED AT FEZ OR ANYONE ELSE!!!! NOR IS IT SAYING THAT GAYS=NAZIS OR NAZIS=GAYS!!!! NOR IS IT ENDORSING ANY FORM OF HOMOPHOBIA!!! I just saw this article linked on A&L and I thought it was fascinating. I had no idea that so many prominent fascists were gay, and I am astonished that any gay people would have anything to do with fascism, given the intense homophobia of the radical right. Despite what Hari says, I'm still confused about the whole phenomenon. Anyway, interested parties please read on: http://www.johannhari.com/archive/article.php?id=407

If you ever couple my name with fascism, or anything like that you'll get what is coming to you. That is going towards all of you. There will be hell to pay.

By the way, nazism was homophobic. I don't like how some people like to be history revisionists.

	02-07-2004 02:02									#39
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun It's fairly simple -- they never come to accept the fact they themselves are gay so they continue to be a religious-right bigot or a fascist.

Read the article again: many of these people are defiantly gay.

	02-07-2004 02:03									#40
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quote: If you ever couple my name with fascism, or anything like that you'll get what is coming to you. That is going towards all of you. There will be hell to pay

Eh? You publicly admitted being a fascist on this very forum.

	02-07-2004 02:07									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Eh? You publicly admitted being a fascist on this very forum.

I'm not a fascist, and will not admit to it ever. Not in one million ****ing years.

	02-07-2004 02:08									#42
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Anyone care to search the archive?

And will you please stop threatening people with violence.

	02-07-2004 02:08									#43
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yeah, u also supposrted a military junta in one of those island nations in the carribean.

	02-07-2004 02:18									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Eh? You publicly admitted being a fascist on this very forum.

You know, it's quite easy to adopt the strategies from Orwell's 1984 on an internet forum...

	02-07-2004 02:18									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Anyone care to search the archive? And will you please stop threatening people with violence.

I threatened you with a non-stop amount of rhetoric and words, not violence. (Please don't twist my ****ing words)

Supported a military junta? Nope.

	02-07-2004 02:50									#46
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Fascists are sexy.

	02-07-2004 02:52									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Well that's not true. I don't think Anti-homosexual ideologies (like Falwell religions) have gay adherents.

As I have already said -- there are gays who are part of the religious-right. They deny that they are gay, but that does not change the fact of part of their own identity.

Worse, there are gays in the religious-right who know they are gay but are closeted to others. They preach and rant against homosexual behavior, then engage in the same behaviors they denounce.

	02-07-2004 02:54									#48
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Another point Imran -- I basically explained where many homophobes are coming from. They're gays who hate themselves and all other gays.

That's not to say that all religious-right people are gay, and it's not to say that all homophobes are gay in denial.

	02-07-2004 03:12									#49
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quote: I'm not a fascist, and will not admit to it ever. Not in one million ****ing years.

Thats fascist talk!!

GET HIM!!!

	02-07-2004 03:31									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin You know, it's quite easy to adopt the strategies from Orwell's 1984 on an internet forum...

Exactly what I thought when I read Fez's post.

	02-07-2004 03:32									#51
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So, now I've actually read the article...

Well, it's an enigma really. Or isn't it? I don't really know, but aren't we trying to understand this to much in a rational light? Rationality is hardly the core of the nazi philosophy, is it? People that join radical political or religious groups are seldom very rational from the perspective of mainstream society. I've actually myself meet a couple of people that was quite obviously not of swedish ethnic decent, but still was part of the nazi skinhead movement of the early and mid 1990s. They and their nazi friends didn't seem to have any problems dealing with the fact that one of them, going around and screaming 'Heil Hitler' and 'Sverige åt svenskarna' (Sweden for the swedes) was asian. Even if I have to admit that I didn't really stick around long enough to debate it with them....

	02-07-2004 03:54									#52
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Well true Fascism isn't rational. In fact it is anti-rational, believing that human emotion is the most important thing.

	02-07-2004 04:01									#53
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quote: I basically explained where many homophobes are coming from. They're gays who hate themselves and all other gays.

Sorry, but as much as I hear of this the more and more silly I think this hypothesis is. I think it was used as a weapon against homophobes and isn't grounded in fact.

	02-07-2004 04:07									#54
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"You know, it's quite easy to adopt the strategies from Orwell's 1984 on an internet forum..."

tempting isnt it...

	02-07-2004 04:51									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I basically explained where many homophobes are coming from. They're gays who hate themselves and all other gays. Sorry, but as much as I hear of this the more and more silly I think this hypothesis is. I think it was used as a weapon against homophobes and isn't grounded in fact.

So in other words, you do not understand basic psychology of humans.

	02-07-2004 05:02									#56
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*thinks should I make a rebuttle to Giancarlo* Hmm... guess I'll keep my mouth shut here too....

	02-07-2004 05:04									#57
	Re: Re: Homosexuals and Fascism (article from A&L) Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo If you ever couple my name with fascism, or anything like that you'll get what is coming to you. That is going towards all of you. There will be hell to pay.

Anyone scared?

Anyone?

It's hard to be frightening when you look like a thinner knock off of Jai from Queer Guy.

'I beat you with my tapas, you brute, you brute, you brute!"

(apologies to 'Blazing Saddles')

	02-07-2004 05:52									#58
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quote: * Theben notes Drake's smiley

I knew I shouldn't have added that. Not a single bite...

	02-07-2004 07:19									#59
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quote: It's fairly simple -- they never come to accept the fact they themselves are gay so they continue to be a religious-right bigot or a fascist

Looks like someone didn't even bother to read the linked article. It bring up plenty of examples of fascists that are openly gay.

quote: If you ever couple my name with fascism, or anything like that you'll get what is coming to you. That is going towards all of you. There will be hell to pay.

*digs up old quote file*
"I am known as an Extreme Authoritarian Radical"
"Wow, I really am authoritarian"
Yes, it would be horribly irrational to think that there is even the slightest link between a former proponent of right-wing authoritarianism (and anti-democratic coups) with fascism .

quote: Supported a military junta? Nope.

So you never discussed your desire to ride a tank through the street and overthrow democratically-elected governments?

quote: By the way, nazism was homophobic. I don't like how some people like to be history revisionists.

Looks like someone else didn't even bother to read the article before mouthing off.

	02-07-2004 07:26									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko Looks like someone didn't even bother to read the linked article. It bring up plenty of examples of fascists that are openly gay.

My bad choice of wording -- what I stated is not the only possibility.


And secondly, you're right with another person's oversimplified statement that because Nazism was homophobic, that none of them could have been gay.