03-07-2004 01:55									#1
	The Map Room Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

This thread is for discussion and speculation on the Map, with emphisis on the BIG scale of it like ware other factions are.


My initial assesment is very positive in the near to mid term.

By Zooming all the way out I can see that Buster has gone with a very artificial Map with only 2 land masses. One is X shaped and likly contains each of the 4 human teams at its points and the Hive at its center (Buster hinted that we would come into contact with the Hive first). The other Land mass thus must contain the PK's and University. Overall it looks like everyone gets an almost Identical lump with a narrow Isthmus connecting them to Yang. It resemblese.


.......PK/Uni...........Morgan........Human1
.......... |......................\.............../
...........|........................\............/
...........|............................Yang
...........|........................./..........\
...........|......................./.............\
.......PK/Uni............Human2......Human3


Conclusion and Sugjestions: If we want to contact the PK's and Uni for trade we will want to build ports on our westers coast so we can easily sail over to them But I suspect all the factions started in the middle of their lumps like we did and their wont be any coastal bases for a long time so a tranport and scout might be the best way to make contact. After greating the AI's we could stop over at the Human 2 and round the south pole to contact Human3. Or Yang might be very willing to trade Com links.

We want to avoid pissing off Yang untill he becomes embroiled in a Conflict with someone else. We can either team up with the other factions to "Poland" the Hive or remain introverted. In any case we dont have to worry about an imediate overland thread from any faction. Also the Angels will probly go heavy Prope Foils so we should avoid making too many coastal bases they could infiltrate.

If we manage to get a good trading relationship with the PK's and Uni then we will be in the money as both seem to be well protected. Sparta will inevitably turn its eye to concuest. If they are disuaded from moving against Yang in the Center they might try to Concour the PK/Uni Island by a navel invasion. We cant let anyone (but us) dominate the whole of that island.

Last edited by Impaler[WrG] on 03-07-2004 at 02:01

	03-07-2004 02:51									#2
	Remove this text

At a high level strategy, I think our best bet is to swiftly secure our needed SP's, expand to our territorial limits, strongly fortify the Yang border, then commence the construction of either a land-bridge or a transport fleet for the invasion of the Uni/PK island.

An offensive conflict with Yang is probably not going to be profitable, since his innate defenses make him terribly hard to knoock over with a fast rover force. Instead, I recommend making tech concessions if necessary to keep Yang compliant. By supplying Yang with armor techs, we keep him aggreable, and strengthen him as a buffer between ourselves and the other human factions. That way, the more momentum-oriented factions can either compete in a naval escalation contest or bleed themselves white fighting an attrition war trying to conquer Yang.

Securing sea control with a mass of cheap 4/3 and 4/4 foils should strongly be considered, especially if we can secure the Maritime Control Center. Control of the sea will effectively let us control UNI/PK land without a sizable land garrison, allowing us to divert more support to land-based forces, as well as making it easy to prevent the activity of foil probes, at least until D:AP.

	03-07-2004 05:04									#3
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So we use Yang as a buffer between us and the other factions, weakening them. Thing is, what if Yang doesn't go that route and instead gets chummy with them?

I say we give him creds to keep him happy, but withhold tech unless its obvious that he's going to invade us. We'll have creds to spare.

I say we try and use Yang against the Spartans, because they'll be the more obvious threat. Later we turn our eyes on the Gaians cause once they get there creature-feature military out, it's going to be a tough fight.

	03-07-2004 05:32									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'm definitely leery of giving Yang weapon techs, but giving him armor techs can make him REALLY hard to uproot.

	03-07-2004 06:24									#5
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Definitely. I say we try and tech-starve Yang but give him creds. Hopefully that will satiate him....who knows, we may even be able to pay him to take out the other factions...or at least weaken them.

	03-07-2004 08:23									#6
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Its highly likely that because of where Yang is he will either be friends with everyone, or enemies. He had some pre-planted bases, I'd lean towards the fact that He'll consider that each faction has committed an atrocity against him,lets be wary about giving him technology.

We may be able to get a ship out to Human 1 as well as Human 2. Looks like my position as CNO won't be just an honorific afterall.

	04-07-2004 15:31									#7
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*bump* after copying over lots of threads from our off-site forum

	05-07-2004 02:10									#8
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I wonder if the data angels are going to go for an early pop boom. They just have to research social psych and ethical calculus. Then they could change to planned and demo, build a children's creche, then pop boom. I see energy as the limiting factor here. It would cost 80 credits to change to planned and demo. I don't know how much a children's crech would run them, maybe 80. Then, they just have to stop any drone riots.

	05-07-2004 02:12									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

They'd probably need to snag the WP to do a decent early boom. It's a good tactic though as the angels. The nuts are the limiting factor rather than cost. Trawling for a few worms will get them the cost back. We'd know if they were going for it anyway from their SE settings and power graph.

Does the location of the yang base we have tie in with the predictions above?

	05-07-2004 04:11									#10
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I hesitate to give the AI anything too valuable. It's too easily probed away. This would include HE Chem, which is on the way to air power. I could see giving him Ind Base once all the player factions have it, though. Same for HE Chem, I guess.

Instead of targeting the AI, I would probably prefer taking on the strongest player faction. Strongest as in best chance to challenge us.

	05-07-2004 10:53									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

The location of that Hive city, is in the center of the X shaped landmass, and it is about 20 squares away from us. Yang is an aggressive mofo, and given how strong he is and how shitty our military will be, will probably demand lots of tech tribute from us when he pops his head in.

I think that we have 3 real options:
1) hope Yang does not make contact with us, until we can defend ourselves.
2) try to secure the isthmus early, and hold it as cheaply as possible. Maybe even probe Yang for some of those military techs.
3) Try to bribe Yang as much as possible.

	05-07-2004 12:39									#12
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

*Rubs hands in glee*
Assuming Yang hasn't been set as being our atrocity victim, leave it to me. I'll have him eating out of the palm of our hand, while we run Demo no less.

Still however, we don't want contact too early, not if he's a mere 20 tiles away. That's far too close for comfort. Yang's one of the few factions I've ever seen the AI play properly. Assuming the stagnate routines don't kick in when all the humans surpass him, he should grow to become quite troublesome later on. Let's just make sure that he's troublesome for everyone else rather than us, shall we?

	06-07-2004 00:04									#13
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

We need to plan for what we know: We know that a land attack is very likely, from either Yang or his Conquerer. We'll need to prepare the defenses at that border regardless of what we do. We cannot trust Yang to be nice to us. (He's always been an ass to me).

	06-07-2004 00:35									#14
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I would really like to know how and when you plan to have him eating out of our hand.

He is a lot closer to the isthmus than we are. A city with a command center, perimeter defense and a few plasma steel defenders should keep him off our peninsula. I may not be thinking far enough ahead. If he goes to war with us first, he might go around asking for support from the other factions... a BAD thing.

Avoiding Yang means we lose the possibility to reach other factions without using boats (and thus not having to research doc: mob and doc: flex) (unless we find a unity foil from a pod on the coast). Those other factions could be a nice source of tech trades and commerce.

	06-07-2004 15:17									#15
	Re: The Map Room Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Impaler[WrG] This thread is for discussion and speculation on the Map, with emphisis on the BIG scale of it like ware other factions are.

The Secret Project discussion has its own thread now:
http://www.apolyton.com/forums/show...threadid=118245

	06-07-2004 15:35									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by arginine I would really like to know how and when you plan to have him eating out of our hand. He is a lot closer to the isthmus than we are. A city with a command center, perimeter defense and a few plasma steel defenders should keep him off our peninsula. I may not be thinking far enough ahead. If he goes to war with us first, he might go around asking for support from the other factions... a BAD thing. Avoiding Yang means we lose the possibility to reach other factions without using boats (and thus not having to research doc: mob and doc: flex) (unless we find a unity foil from a pod on the coast). Those other factions could be a nice source of tech trades and commerce.

It'll depend a lot on the situation we're in when we meet with him. Preferably where we're ahead in tech, haven't yet hit Demo, and he hasn't yet met any other factions.
I don't suppose anyone in here is any good at creating turn simulators, are they? I could use one for theory testing.

	06-07-2004 15:57									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I can do, but there's not a whole lot of info available atm... You want one based on now ish?