13-03-2001 10:42									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by yin26 on 03-12-2001 10:40 AM</font>
Well, I donated a few hundred hours over the past two years. Times that by my tutoring salary of $100 / hour (yes, my real fee...but is it worth it? ). So I'd say moderators already donate enough.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>it goes without saying that people who have worked for the site would get whatever the paying members got

	13-03-2001 10:44									#32
	Put an end to popups!

I kind of like the "contribution" approach better than some type of subscription service. And, as Rah points out... no technical changes would be needed... just an address to send to checks to

Yin takes it to the next level by having a PRINTED LIST OF SUPPORTERS and offering some type of prize/raffle for those who contribute. The printed list approach works well for many Universities. People like to see their name in lights, and show their support.

Even though I contribute a lot of my time to Apolyton already, I would be more than willing to contribute money also to help the site out.

	13-03-2001 10:48									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by rah on 03-12-2001 11:23 AM</font>
I'd be will to pay a nominal amount per year to avoid pop-ups. And if that included the regular ads, it would be an added bonus.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>hmmm well, our plan is that the ads that are under our control will never pop-ups

	13-03-2001 10:50									#34
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by -- but not Snapcase on 03-12-2001 11:25 AM</font>
The problem with a fee is that it changes the position of everyone from "viewers" to "customers".
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>guess what? some people already consider themselves as "customers"

	13-03-2001 10:55									#35
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by cpoulos on 03-12-2001 11:55 AM</font>
I like this one because it is very active, but with a fee I think the number of subscribers would drop quite dramatically. Who wants to pay for something that they always got for free?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>as i said, there will always be the option to use the site for free(but with ads)


<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by MarkG (edited March 12, 2001).]</font>

	13-03-2001 10:59									#36
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Eli on 03-12-2001 11:55 AM</font>
There are two advertisments, if you press on one you will get acres bonus(Kingdom Building game ) and if you press on the other one you will get food bonus. But there is a limit of one bonus per day.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>interesting idea! so are you suggesting that each poster has the ability to post 10 messages, and in order to get 10 more "posting points" to have to click on an ad?

i'm not sure if the company who has bought the ads on that site happy with the results(since none of the people who click on the ads are really interested in what they click)...

anyway, got a url?

	13-03-2001 17:12									#37
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I buy far too many games anyway - some of them never seem to get a good airing - So, for the fun of this site I would definitely DONATE the cost of one or two games a year say 25 to 50 GBP -- like many others, I would be unhappy if required to subscribe - if only because I would be subscribing to something other than the ACS that I have grown to love.

It has been said above, but let's say it again - Dan, Mark, if you need some financial support - ask us -- many of us are impecunious, but many are at least moderately well off - we love this site and would not like to see it die for any reason (be it death by pop-up advertising or death by subscription only services)

------------------
Scouse Git[1]

"Staring at your screen in horror and disbelief when you open a saved game is one of the fun things of a succession game " - Hueij
"The Great Library must be built!"
"A short cut has to be challenging,
were it not so it would be 'the way'." - Paul Craven

	13-03-2001 18:15									#38
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

thanks for the suggestions and the ideas everyone

as i said, we are not in the position to need donations to keep the site alive. it's very good to know though that if we ever come to that(which doesnt seem likely right now) there will be people willing to help. still, i would hate to be in that position and seeing how the ad business is going i'm discussing alternative ideas in order to avoid being in that position. that's all.

some good people were amazingly fast to characterize us for trying to make a profit. let me just say that if we were looking for profits we would have quit years ago.


Yin, on your suggestion for an article: we cant give out specific numbers on costs and earnings. but here are some facts on the usage
we currently occupy over 2-2.5GB of disk space and we do around 1-2GB of traffic every day

starchild, i went to Planetout and i got a pop-up

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Markos, Apolyton Civilization Site

edit: "can't" not "can"
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by MarkG (edited March 13, 2001).]</font>

	13-03-2001 18:38									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

correction: we exceed 3gb for disk space...

	13-03-2001 18:50									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Did you mean you can't give out specifics on earnings? If you mean that you CAN do it then I'd be very interested in reading it as well.

	13-03-2001 19:01									#41
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Markos,

Not being an admin guy, I'm not sure what that means in terms of cost. I suppose if you can't release the info publically, perhaps you could point me in the right direction to find the info on my own?

	13-03-2001 19:07									#42
	Suffering from ads?

yin, just check out some web hosting companies...

	13-03-2001 19:24									#43
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by OldWarrior_42 on 03-12-2001 11:26 PM</font>
Why would it "not be fair"? If someone decides that paying customers get more for what they contribute for, then it is perfectly fair. Do people that cannot afford a large house to own, complain it is not fair to them because they cannot afford to pay for it? It is free enterprise. That is how the system works and if the owners of this site decide it is what they want or need to do... it is their decision. Of course they will either reap the rewards of this decision or live with the demise of their site, depending on whether or not they get lots of subscribers or suffer a mass exodus. But as Markos explained anyway, there will always be an option for those to view the site free of charge, so fairness to you is not really a question.

I am just pointing out that what is fair is not always a clear cut vision. Take into consideration all sides to see whether it is a fair decision, a hard one, neccesary or whatever. There are always more than one side to a story.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by OldWarrior_42 (edited March 12, 2001).]</font>
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

This was not what I meant, over here you have to have reached a certain age (18) to have a credit card (which as far as I know is the only way to pay for stuff like this over the net).
It's not that I can't afford paying, but rather that I am not allowed to pay, now that would be unfair (though not necesarily Apolyton fault, which is why I think that paying should just remove ads for you).
I would very much like to pay but I am simply not allowed to by the law.
Besides ads don't bother me that much, but would it come to the survival of the site (which seems to not be the case) I would like to pay, but still be unable to do so. Hope I made myself clear old warrior.

	13-03-2001 19:46									#44
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

OK...

Hosting from demon in the UK puts the price at £250 a month for 500mb at 30,000mb traffic a month (gig a day) that's the highest they do. OTOH they'll also lease you an entire server (13Gb) with unlimited traffic on a 512Kb for a similar price.

	13-03-2001 20:30									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Just to throw some gasoline on the fire here... If the ads bug you that much, there are quite a few freeware and shareware utilities out there that let you browse without even seeing the ads.

Aredhran

	13-03-2001 21:47									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I wouldn't pay one red cent for access to this site. Not that I don't think it's a great site, but I'm an absolute cheapskate. I don't even pay for Internet access. I would rather go without, than ever pay a subscription fee to any site. I can tolerate the ebay advert.

Bkeela.

	13-03-2001 21:52									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Bkeela, that's pretty fun.
I'd pay for not seeint the pop-up windows, but I don't care for the normal banners that much to pay for it. I'd better pay not to have server donwtime .

------------------
Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

	14-03-2001 10:30									#48
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The ads don't bug me but if you ever have to go over to asking for contributions I'd willingly chip in.

The bridge club of which I am a member fulfills something of the same function for the community of central London (and not so central) bridge players. It is a proprietary club too but the owners have a committee of members which assists them with stuff like ethical and disciplinary matters. And the ethos of the place, like here, is influenced by both the members and the owners.

No one thinks anything of paying an annual membership fee in connection with clubs like that and it is easy enough to arrange for discounts or exemptions to be available for the young or un-waged and to say that the first period is free (to let people find out if they like the place).

So if you need to do this I am pretty sure you could. Maybe you could copy my bridge club and ask the posters to elect a small members committee and ask them to devise and operate the membership fee arrangements?

As to how much a full annual membership should be, well anything from $40 to $80 would strike me as unexceptional. You could run it for 6 months to see how many names accumulated on the fee paying membership list, killing the ads only if and when it became possible to be confident that the membership fees would indeed cover the site's running costs.

	13-03-2001 23:03									#49
	Remove this text

Well, as long as ole 'Poly doesn't become a subscription-only site, I'm happy (yeah, I know you guys don't plan to do it, I'm just ranting ) . That's cuz doing the subscription thing will destroy Apolyton as we know it.
Combatsim.com went that way, and now almost all the interesting international discussion is gone (or so I hear), with only the American hardcore sim-crowd left.

But I would contribute some dong, if ever manage to get a credit card...

	14-03-2001 03:32									#50
	Put an end to popups!

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by MarkG on 03-13-2001 08:15 AM</font>

thanks for the suggestions and the ideas everyone



<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

No problem




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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.

	14-03-2001 05:56									#51
	Tired of ads?

Mark,

If I'm not mistaken, UBB supports icons right? I mean a small graphic that appears under the posters name when he posts. If so, then here's an idea.

Ask Firaxis for some kind of graphics from Civ III that could be used as icons, 3-5 different ones, with varying degrees of desirability. Then, set it up so paid members get an icon by their name. A simple on for a $5 donation, a nicer one for $10, ... and the best one for a $50? donation. Of course the amounts could be anything.

And, in addition paying members could get the ad-free service as well.

John-SJ

	14-03-2001 09:47									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

See, now there's some creative thinking! Of course, the icons should only last a year...

	14-03-2001 09:56									#53
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Since many of us post both places and I was asked to do this.


Here is what ACOL says on the matter.

http://www.an.i-dentity.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/013969.html

	14-03-2001 10:52									#54
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Henrik...thats very different.

I understand now what you are saying. You have made it more clear to me. Sorry for the wrong interpretation on my part. :O

	14-03-2001 13:33									#55
	Got spare money?

I don't mind making a donation either.

And along the vein of DaveV and John-SJ, anybody who donoates more than a certain amount, USD50 perhaps, gets to choose his own title. Anybody who makes a donation gets the "donor" label.

	14-03-2001 14:34									#56
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

It would have to be less than $1 a month. And that is a serious answer.

This is a great site, but if I'm going to pay anything more than $1 a month you need to add some pornographic pictures first

	14-03-2001 15:33									#57
	Tired of ads?

I would have to get a credit card first.....
So I wouldn't be keen to pay anything to be honest.
I don't mind the banner ads.

	14-03-2001 16:17									#58
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

ahh yes the credit card is the major issue here as many of our regulars are young. can't we just say the check is in the mail?

	14-03-2001 16:34									#59
	Put an end to popups!

http://geekvillage.com/ubb/Ultimate.cgi

	14-03-2001 19:48									#60
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I'd suggest this: Simply buy your games from this site (some any way). I just bought EU and Poly got 10%! ($3.90). Now, if Markos can track these purchases to a specific user (I guess that's nearly impossible, though they must track IPs), then we can make our contributions by buying games we want anyway (or just make a straight donation with the title/icon idea).

For the record, I've bought perhaps 15 games from Chips and Bits (all delivered to me overseas in Korea), and I've never had even ONE problem! Not a single problem.