06-07-2004 08:40									#1
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Swedish Pastor Sentenced to Month in Prison for Preaching Against Homosexuality

STOCKHOLM, July 5, 2004 - Ake Green, the pastor of a Swedish Pentecostal church in Kalmar, Sweden, has been sentenced to one month in prison by a Swedish court, for inciting hatred against homosexuals. Green was prosecuted in January for "hate speech against homosexuals" for a sermon he preached last summer citing Biblical references to homosexuality.

Sweden passed an equivalent to Canada's Bill C-250 last year -- a "hate crimes" law that forbids criticism of homosexuality. In a WorldNetDaily article, the author quotes from the church newspaper Kyrkans Tidning, in which the prosecutor in the case, Kjell Yngvesson, justifies the arrest of pastor Green: "One may have whatever religion one wishes, but this is an attack on all fronts against homosexuals. Collecting Bible cites on this topic as he (Pastor Green) does makes this hate speech."

So much for freedom of religion.

I wonder when the first person in Canada will be arrested for doing the same thing.

	06-07-2004 08:42									#2
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Why don't you go for it, Ben?

You'll certainly learn the other side of the story once you're in the slammer.

	06-07-2004 08:49									#3
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Hate Speech=

	06-07-2004 08:49									#4
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Technically, I can be arrested, by this precedent for my response to Lancer's thread on homosexuality.

I cobbled together the biblical passages on homosexuality then.

However, back then, Bill C-250 was not legal here in Canada. So I could not be charged.

All right.

I'll be right back.

Time to let them build a proper case for hate speech here in Canada.

	06-07-2004 08:50									#5
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What did he actually say though? Was he just quoting scripture? Or was he using scripture to justify actions against homosexuals?

There's a big difference between "Homosexuality is an abomination" and "Kill homosexuals because it is an abomination".

If it was the first, this is a terrible law. If it was somewhere towards the second, it may be justified.

	06-07-2004 08:50									#6
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Free speech.

WorldNetDaily

	06-07-2004 08:54									#7
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* Drinks gallon of "the pink stuff" for my nausea *
I agree with BK on this one. It's very wrong that this evil, vile waste of skin has been charged, convicted, and sentenced for "hate crimes" if ALL he was doing was citing passages from the Bible word-for-word...

However, if he was putting his OWN spin on the matter, complete with colorful metaphors, then he needs to bend over and take his punishment like a man.

BK, you want to link the actual article, as per usual custom in the OT?

	06-07-2004 08:57									#8
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Sweden -

And you Europeans think you're free.

	06-07-2004 08:57									#9
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As has become obligatory lately:

Free speech:
Laws that prohibit incitement to violence against any individual or group:
Laws that prohibit incitement to hatred:
Social conservatism:
Ben Kenobi's one-track mind:
Spotting a Canadian social conservative: because it's embarassing and because it's as rare as a steak that's still kicking

	06-07-2004 08:59									#10
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Europe != Sweden. And you Americans think you are smart with your geographics and generalisations?

Hey, we don't have those kind of laws. I can go and say the n-word and beat the crap out of a black person, admit racist motivation and get MAX fines of 1 grand.
I can do the same to homosexual

So yeah in here we ARE free to do what ever we want.

	06-07-2004 09:08									#12
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All right.

Now you can make a proper case against me.

Leviticus 18:22

"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Leviticus 20:13

" If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Genesis 19:4-7

Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom-both young and old-surrounded the house. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing."


Jude 1:7

"In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion."


Romans 1:24-7

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.


1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

	06-07-2004 09:10									#13
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I'm sure you folks are talented enough to find the article that I cited here.

But the link alluded to is this:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/a...RTICLE_ID=37410

	06-07-2004 09:12									#14
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quote: Ben Kenobi's one-track mind:

Homosexuality and abortion are two things, Krazy.

But if it is wrong to be dedicated than I fully admit my error.

quote: Spotting a Canadian social conservative: because it's embarassing and because it's as rare as a steak that's still kicking

	06-07-2004 09:13									#15
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quote: Or how about Sweden, where "civil unions" have been a reality for several years? Last year, the Swedes passed a sweeping "hate crimes" law forbidding any criticism of homosexuality. Last summer, Pastor Ake Green was arrested at a church in Kalmar, Sweden, and charged with "hate speech against homosexuals" for a sermon about homosexuality. According to the church newspaper Kyrkans Tidning, the prosecutor, Kjell Yngvesson, justified the arrest this way: "One may have whatever religion one wishes, but this is an attack on all fronts against homosexuals. Collecting Bible cites on this topic as he (Pastor Green) does makes this hate speech."

Here's the relevant Worldnetdaily section, DRose.

	06-07-2004 09:16									#16
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Note that this is the prosecutor's justification for the arrest, which is very good evidence, rather than the complaint of the victim.

	06-07-2004 09:16									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Leviticus 20:13 " If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

O.k., someone has to say it:

"When I lie with a guy, I'm usually just showing off. When I lie with a woman, it's always about what I've been doing since I last saw her. So I'll be sure to keep these lies distinct."

-Smack, who doesn't want to go to hell but thinks humor is healthy.

	06-07-2004 09:17									#18
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Do you support the death penalty for homosexual relations, BK? Do you advocate it in anyway?

If NO, then relax.

If YES, then go directly to Jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.

	06-07-2004 09:19									#19
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Now, I could really use a Swede here...

http://www.kyrkanstidning.com/Artic...line584.dbp.asp


Pastor dömd för homohets

Pingstpastor Åke Green dömdes i dag för hets mot folkgrupp. Kalmar tingsrätt dömer honom till en månads fängelse för att ha hetsat mot homosexuella i en predikan i juli 2003.

Pingstpastor Åke Green.
Foto: Barometern/OT

Domen kan bli prejudicerande eftersom det är första gången den nya lagen om hets mot homosexuella prövas.

Tingsrätten dömer Åke Green för att han ”i sin predikan uppsåtligen gjort uttalanden som klart uttrycker missaktning mot människor på grund av deras sexuella läggning och det får därtill anses vara ställt utom allt rimligt tvivel att dessa hans uttalanden gjorts i syfte att miss- och ringakta homosexuella som grupp.”

Hets mot folkgrupp anses inte vara ett ringa brott utan ska om inte särskilda skäl finns leda till fängelse, med ett maxstraff på två år.

	06-07-2004 09:23									#20
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quote: Do you support the death penalty for homosexual relations, BK? Do you advocate it in anyway?

No, and no.

However, I have compiled a list of the biblical passages with respect to homosexuality.

I have, on occasion, offered my interpretations of these passages, to the effect that homosexuality is sinful, and that just like any other sinner, they should repent of their sins.

So, if we are to regard this prosecution in Sweden as a precedent here in Canada, then I could be charged.

Heck, I'm not even a pastor, and I am not doing this in a church! I'm doing this out in public.

	06-07-2004 09:24									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Europe != Sweden. And you Americans think you are smart with your geographics and generalisations? Hey, we don't have those kind of laws. I can go and say the n-word and beat the crap out of a black person, admit racist motivation and get MAX fines of 1 grand. I can do the same to homosexual So yeah in here we ARE free to do what ever we want.

Well admittedly I don't know much about Finland, but..

I know many countries on the continent have banned "Mein Kampf" and the Nazi party. Scientology is banned in Germany, possibly other countries. And France's disgusting headscarf ban....

I'm sure there are many other anti-free speech things in Europe.

	06-07-2004 09:28									#22
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quote: Collecting Bible cites on this topic as he (Pastor Green) does makes this hate speech.

This denotes that collecting Bible cites is not the only reason. I don't know what else he is referencing, but it is obvious that he is not just referencing the use of Bible cites.

As such, it doesn't prove anything. Only a fundamentalist wacko or someone with very low reading comprehension would assume it does. Show how he (Pastor Green) was using those cites, and then we could decide on whether or not the ruling was justified.

	06-07-2004 09:32									#23
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Sweden

Pastor Jackasses

	06-07-2004 09:36									#24
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quote: As such, it doesn't prove anything. Only a fundamentalist wacko or someone with very low reading comprehension would assume it does. Show how he (Pastor Green) was using those cites, and then we could decide on whether or not the ruling was justified.

Aeson:

Not necessarily.

I agree that it would be better to have a copy of his sermon in Sweden in front of us, but consider this.

Freedom of speech, and religion is not merely the ability to believe in something, but also to express it. You cannot have this right, if you only allow a person to do as I have done, by providing a list. The man is a pastor, and ought to be able to present his analysis. This is why he gets paid the big bucks, to interpret these passages of scripture.

I agree with you that it would be wrong for someone to say that one ought to kill all those who are homosexuals, but this does not seem to be the case. Surely, if the prosecutor had evidence to show this, he would have cited this as his reason for arrest? However, from the statements of the prosecutor, it seems that the compiliation of passages in scripture was enough to secure his arrest.

If this is so, then I ought also be charged and arrested for hate speech here in Canada.

	06-07-2004 09:36									#25
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Down with Ben!! Boo!

	06-07-2004 09:37									#26
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OzzyKP, would you like me to hurt my fingers while totally trashing your argument, or is it enough if I say you are way off base here?

	06-07-2004 09:37									#27
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quote: Pingstpastor Åke Green dömdes i dag för hets mot folkgrupp. Kalmar tingsrätt dömer honom till en månads fängelse för att ha hetsat mot homosexuella i en predikan i juli 2003.

"Reverend (? a clergyman anyway) Åke Green was sentenced today for incitement of violence/hate/something not nice towards a group of people to a month in prison after inciting people against homosexuals in a parish in July 2003".

As far as I know, hets is like "prosecution" or "telling people to go do bad things to someone". The English version in the opening post with "incitement of hatred" is pretty close, but it's vague in both versions whether it's mere hate or inciting actual acts of violence. A native Swedish-speaker will probably be able to clarify this.

	06-07-2004 09:43									#28
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BK, So say, if a religion would say that black people are bad and not God's work, would that be ok to preach around? Of course it wouldn't be.

And furthermore I am sure that jsut citing these scriptures isn't enough for conviction in the evil Sweden. Maybe he took some own liberties expressing and extending these scriptures.

Bible isn't very good on other religions, like having false Gods. But I don't see pastors goign around and bashing other religions. So why would he bash gays, what is the interest in that?

And don't get dramatic, I'm sure you're not commiting any crime here. with the martyrdom.

	06-07-2004 09:44									#29
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Perhaps Christianity is a hate religion?

	06-07-2004 09:44									#30
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Darn!

Where is Combat Ingrid when you need her.

Kassi, could you help find one of the Swedes here on Poly so we can obtain a better translation?

'Reverend'

Yup, that's right. Swedes are Lutherans, so their pastors are Reverends.