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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:34
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Pekka:
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He continues to say that homosexuals are likely to rape animals.
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Where does he say this, Pekka? Do you happen to have the sermon in question?
quote:
That you don't have a right to have your own private life when it comes to sex as your own matter? Wrong. It is personal matter, and law protects it.
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True, but Christians insist upon a higher standard amongst themselves. Do you forbid any criticism of permissive sexuality? Then you have plenty of pastors to jail. It is a legitimate part of the job of a pastor to uphold Christian teachings with respect to the integrity of the body.
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Pedophiles are criminals, and sick people. Unlike gays, pedophiles have victims.
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The comparison is that both are sins against the body. This returns us to the point that you are not your own, but were bought for a price. This way you can commit sins against your own body.
To many people, including myself, believe that homosexuals are just as sick as pedophiles, with respect to how they treat their own bodies. Rather then condemnation, they should be helped. Right now, trying to help them equates with condemnation, which is rather hard to see since what people do sexually has now become equivalent to who they are.
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Kitschum
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Immer an der Grenze
Oct 2001
time: 06:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I disagree with this assessment, that Pastor Green intends to expose homosexuals to harm. From his perspective, they can be changed, and they are not doomed to sin. Ergo, he believes that they can be helped, and ought to be helped, and not simply killed. |
This, "[those] sexual abnormities are a deep cancer tumor on the entire body politic" is apparently a direct quote from the sermon. I wasn't sure if you caught that.
The pastor didn't (directly) intend to expose homosexuals to harm, in that we agree, my quoted editorial agrees and the court seems to agree as well. I'm having difficulty translating the legal speak here, but he was convicted of making statements with intent to denigrate/disrespect/defame ("uttrycka missaktning mot") a group of people because of their sexuality. In the court's opinion and interpretation of the law that is a violation of the rights of homosexuals and a threat to democratic values and the safety of minority groups in society.
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This contrasts to the Muslim mullahs who preach that the Jew is their enemy who ought to be killed. This is the distinction that needs to be preserved in kind.
How many Muslim mullahs in Sweden are prosecuted for preaching that the Jews are the enemy and ought to be killed? Why one standard for Christians, and another for everyone else? |
Is there another article you're referring to or is this a general inquiry? 
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Kitschum
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Immer an der Grenze
Oct 2001
time: 06:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Equating homosexuality with other sexual sins is a form of criticism. Therefore there is no distortion in the World Net article. |
I still think there is.
The law doesn't forbid "criticism of homosexuality". If it had said "defamation of sexual minorities" or something similar I wouldn't have considered it a distortion, but "criticism" is a very strange word to use.
It's true that isolated it might just have been a case of bad translation and not deliberate, but in the context of the WorldNetDaily article with its Hitler/Chamberlain references I don't think so.
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
To many people, including myself, believe that homosexuals are just as sick as pedophiles, with respect to how they treat their own bodies. |
To many people, like me, Christians like you are monotonous insulting bores, with nothing better to do than lecture other people about their supposed failings, cherry picking from biblical texts to suit their own prejudices.
'for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it. '
'7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.'
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MrFun
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of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:34
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quote:
Originally posted by molly bloom
To many people, like me, Christians like you are monotonous insulting bores, with nothing better to do than lecture other people about their supposed failings, cherry picking from biblical texts to suit their own prejudices.
'for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it. '
'7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.' |
them's fighting words Molly -- keep them coming 
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Dr Strangelove
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You know, we still don't really know what Rev. Green really said. Maybe his speech was truly inflammatory.
Oh, and that thing in Romans 1. If you read on you'll find that Paul goes on to point out that there is a whole slew of cussed human behaviors worthy of condemnation according to the older Jewish tradition, including not only deviant behavior, violence and rape, but even gossiping, argumentativeness, boasting and pride. He goes so far as to equate the seemingly lesser sins like boasting, with the presumably bigger sins. He then goes further as to assert that the Jewish Christians who have a prideful disdain for the gentile converts in the Roman congregation, which is the real subject of Romans 1, are just as sinful as, well, let's say...... a transexual transvestite with a real flare for anilingus. You see, the whole point of Romans 1 was not to rally ther faithful against gays, but to heal a rift between two segments of the Roman congregation. In the future please read the whole section from which you're ripping a biblical quote to ensure that you preserve the meaning within the true context.
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:34
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BK, he talked about gays being ready to rape animals. That is not very good thing to say. That's demonizing a group of people. When you put all those things together, you got persecution 100%.
I still think a month in jail is too harsh of a punishment. I think they're just making an example out of him.
Interpretations, interpretations.. you have to remember but up here, it's pretty liberal. We are euros, when it comes to sex, many of us Christians feels that what happens in bedroom between two adults (or more), is their own business and that God wants us to take pleasure and enjoy ourselves with people we love.
THat's a popular interpretation in here, and plus many pastors (lutherans can be called pastors) do actually accept homosexuals. Not everyone feels it's a big sin, or sickness. There have been many pastors even on TV saying that homosexuals or straight people, love is love and that's it and everyone is accepted by the church. And they go as far as citing the bible for it.
As far as my own interpretation goes, I feel that everyone is accepted by God, no matter what race, colour, age, social status or sexual preferense. IMO it just doesn't matter if you believe, and want to be saved, it's enough, including gay people as well.
Even the main dude of catholic church in here said that homosexuals are just like us, they just love the same gender. I think he wasn't ready to register them, but he was ready to accept them as they are and welcome them too. Not converting, but just welcoming.
So these anti-gay preaching pastors seems to be more like a minority in here. We do have gay people here like in every country, and bashing gays is not seen as a cool thing at all. It's a sign of a jerk, and is widely condemned. So, if a pastor would say that gay people would rape animals, are comparable to pedophiles, are tumour of our society, you bet they're ass is out. And we don't see it as freedom of religion thing. That's your interpretation of freedom of religion.
Freedon of religion, just as freedom of speech is alive in here, but it comes with a responsibility, and if you start persecuting speeches like that, you'll get the heat from it. In here, you're not braking law though, in Sweden you are.
If this pastor is so worried about gay phenomenon, he could say homosexualism is a sin and they are sinners, and that we must pray for them to wake up or something. It's different than going on saying they rape animals and are the reason for God to strike Scandinavia. THat's bigot speak.
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
he was convicted of making statements with intent to denigrate/disrespect/defame ("uttrycka missaktning mot") a group of people because of their sexuality. In the court's opinion and interpretation of the law that is a violation of the rights of homosexuals and a threat to democratic values and the safety of minority groups in society. |
 Preventing people from being 'denigrated, disrespected, and defamed' is more important than freedom of speech?  |
No.
Preventing Obi Gyn from turning a thread about sump oil usage in Uzbekistan into yet another thread about why gays are sinful, are like paedophiles, and gay marriage is bad, bad, bad, IS more important than food, the meaning of life, and whether you ever get laid again, Imran.
I'd really like it if he took up something useful, like, say, macrame, prison visiting or missionary work in northern Sudan.
But why do good works, when you can spend your time on-line regurgitating 2 000 year old bigotry?
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Monk
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I don't think we're in Brønshøj anymore
Jan 1970
time: 06:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Where does he say this, Pekka? Do you happen to have the sermon in question? |
...och sexuella abnormiteter är en djup cancersvulst på hela samhällskroppen. Herren vet att sexuellt förvridna människor kommer till och med att våldta djuren. Inte heller djuren går fria för människans sexuella behov och brand som är tänt i en människa utan till och med det kan man ägna sig åt. Och det har jag hört människor berätta för mig själv, då jag satt och lyssnade till då jag var jourhavande medmänniska, genom Röda korset under många år. Så var det inte en tillfällighet att människor berättade om sina djuriska förbindelser man har
haft och som gett en tillfredsställelse.
Available at http://www.contra.nu/green.html but unfortunately in Swedish only.
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