07-07-2004 03:53									#1
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Where is there a comprehensive, detailed list of all the different civ traits (for Conquests)?

The civilopedia is so vague as to be unuseful.

	07-07-2004 16:45									#2
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To vague? honestly I think the pedia gives a pretty good explanation of what the traits do...

	07-07-2004 20:15									#3
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When you choose a civ, but before you start the game, click on the button below the leader portrait. You will get the civilopedia description of all the traits. That is as detailed and comprehensive as it gets.

	07-07-2004 20:27									#4
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Or you could look at the attached spreadsheet

The ratings are as per the poll that was done a couple of months ago. The ratings are out of 5, though I'm not sure they are actually the final scores.

Hope this helps

Attachment: civ traits.xls
This has been downloaded 36 time(s).

	08-07-2004 00:25									#5
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The pedia gives a very vague, very brief overview. But not everything.

It says agricultural civs get one extra food per city. So is that *every* city or just cities and metropolises? Also, I saw in the forum somewhere that it only works if the city is next to a river. Is that true? And it said you get cheaper food buildings, what exactly does that include? I just played the Celts, and the Granaries are full price. You can't get any more of a food building than a granary, so what gives?

And that's just one trait.

	08-07-2004 00:53									#6
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The food buildings are aqueducts and hospitals. I think.

	08-07-2004 01:03									#7
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Well those are the kind of details I'm hoping someone has already written out, so I don't have to guess which buildings count, and which don't. And when there is a benefit, I'm hoping for a guide to say how much of a benefit.

	08-07-2004 01:18									#8
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It can be annoying not knowing the whole facts. It took a chance playing as a military civ for me to discover harbours are half price for that trait.

	08-07-2004 07:27									#9
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Really?

That doesn't make sense. Granaries, clearly a food building, aren't half price for agricultural, and harbors, having little to no military effect, are half price for military? Weird.

A list needs to be made. I'm amazed you fine folks haven't made one yet.

	08-07-2004 07:35									#10
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ag is already pretty powerful. Half price granaries would be ridiculous.

	08-07-2004 09:26									#11
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It's all about game balance. Half-price granaries for a civ that already has higher food producing abilities would be unbalancing. Even half-priced Aqueducts should probably be removed to counter the power of the trait.

Sorry if my spreadsheet was of no use - I thought you were looking for a summary of which civs have which traits, rather than the effects of the traits themselves.

Anyway, the effects are fairly widely known, so post your questions here and someone will answer them

	08-07-2004 10:02									#12
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Well i've been waiting, and no one has answered yet.

	08-07-2004 13:34									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Aqualung71 It's all about game balance. Half-price granaries for a civ that already has higher food producing abilities would be unbalancing. Even half-priced Aqueducts should probably be removed to counter the power of the trait. Sorry if my spreadsheet was of no use - I thought you were looking for a summary of which civs have which traits, rather than the effects of the traits themselves. Anyway, the effects are fairly widely known, so post your questions here and someone will answer them

I think a better balancing idea would be to have the improvements (granary, aqueduct, hospital) at half price and get rid of the extra food on the centre city tile.

	08-07-2004 13:44									#14
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Half Price Buildings

Agricultural - Aqueduct, Hospital
Scientific - Lib, Uni, Research Lab
Militaristic - Barracks, Harbour (boats are military units), Airport
Seafaring - Harbour, Commercial Dock
Religious - Temple, Cathedral

Industrial, Commercial, Expansionaist - none

	08-07-2004 13:57									#15
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Where can I see the agressiveness level ascribed to each civilization? This is not even in civilopedia!

Unlike Civ2, for which the game effects were described in a reasonable detail, I've got the impression that the C3C creators just deliberately intended to keep us in darkness.

	08-07-2004 16:41									#16
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quote: Originally posted by The Vagabond Where can I see the agressiveness level ascribed to each civilization? This is not even in civilopedia!

Open the Map Editor (a great info source)
open Scenario tab and choose "custom rules"
open rules tab and choose "edit rules"
open Civilizations tab and choose a tribe
tribe aggression is listed near lower left

	08-07-2004 16:52									#17
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Thanks. I'll try to do that.

But on the other hand, this is rather an involved procedure. It is inexusable that such info is not available in a simpler way, e.g. through the pedia.

	08-07-2004 17:11									#18
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It's essentially a trade-off between the need to provide sufficient information to play the game for the casual player, and the desire of the fanatic (ie, you and me) to know every little game mechanism.....the latter probably represents less than 5% of the revenue from game sales, but costs quite a bit of money to cater for. The same principle applies to the next patch that we are all so eagerly waiting for but will probably never come. The vast majority of Civ players have never even heard of this site, and will probably have no idea of the bugs that a lot of us here see as serious.

So in summary, if you are that involved in the game (as a lot of us are) that you want to know the specific aggressiveness of each civ, then it's really not a big deal to open the editor and find out. After all, you probably already devote an obscene amount of time to playing this horrible game, so improving your knowledge of it by scanning the editor shouldn't be such a big deal

Cheers, and happy civving!

	08-07-2004 18:56									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus Half Price Buildings Agricultural - Aqueduct, Hospital Scientific - Lib, Uni, Research Lab Militaristic - Barracks, Harbour (boats are military units), Airport Seafaring - Harbour, Commercial Dock Religious - Temple, Cathedral Industrial, Commercial, Expansionaist - none

Thanks.

Now what about the other benefits?

	08-07-2004 19:17									#20
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Religious - 1 turn anarchy (as opposed to 4 - 9 turns). Starts game with ceremonial burial.

Commercial - +1 commerce in each city tile, +25% OCN (optimal city number - effects corruption), starts game with alphabet.

Agricultural - +1 food per city tile (does not apply under despotism/anarchy, unless the city is built on a river or lake), irrigated deserts have 2f, instead of 1f (makes them plains, essentially), starts game with pottery.

Scientific - bonus tech upon entry into a new era, increased chance of Scientific Great Leader generation (instead of 3%, it's 5%, IIRC), starts game with bronze working.

Militaristic - increased promotion rate for units that win battles. This translates into more elite units, which in turns means more MGLs (indirectly, of course), starts game with warrior code (except the Japanese, who get the wheel).

Seafaring - +1 move to all ships, reduced chance of sinking (instead of 50% chance, 25%), +1 commerce to city tiles built on the coast (stacks with commercial in the case of the English), starts game with alphabet.

Industrious - +1 shield to city tiles once the city gets up above size 6 (or was that changed?), starts game with masonry.

Expansionist - free scout (0.0.2) to start the game. No barbs from goodie huts, better chance of good goodies, starts game with pottery.

-Arrian

	08-07-2004 22:05									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Commercial - +1 commerce in each city tile

More for metros, IIRC.

	08-07-2004 23:10									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Religious - 1 turn anarchy (as opposed to 4 - 9 turns). Starts game with ceremonial burial.

Changed from 1 turn anarchy (4 - 8 otherwise) to 2 turns anarchy (5 - 9 otherwise) in Conquests.

quote: Commercial - +1 commerce in each city tile, +25% OCN (optimal city number - effects corruption), starts game with alphabet.

Actually +2 commerce in the city title if size 2 [pop 7 - 12] and +3 if size 3 [pop 13+]

quote: Agricultural - +1 food per city tile (does not apply under despotism/anarchy, unless the city is built on a river or lake), irrigated deserts have 2f, instead of 1f (makes them plains, essentially), starts game with pottery.

Except if civ is both Agricultrual and Expanionist [Incans?] gets Masonary as Agricultural choice

quote: Scientific - bonus tech upon entry into a new era, increased chance of Scientific Great Leader generation (instead of 3%, it's 5%, IIRC), starts game with bronze working. Militaristic - increased promotion rate for units that win battles. This translates into more elite units, which in turns means more MGLs (indirectly, of course), starts game with warrior code (except the Japanese, who get the wheel). Seafaring - +1 move to all ships, reduced chance of sinking (instead of 50% chance, 25%), +1 commerce to city tiles built on the coast (stacks with commercial in the case of the English), starts game with alphabet.

+2 Commerce to size 2 cities [pop 7 - 12] when built on the coast and +3 Commerce to size 3 cities [pop 13+] when built on the coast.
Except if civ is both Commerical and Seafaring [English], gets Pottery as Seafaring choice.

quote: Industrious - +1 shield to city tiles once the city gets up above size 6 (or was that changed?), starts game with masonry.

Industrial bonsus is +1 for size 2 cities (pop 7 - 12) and +2 for size 3 cities (pop 13+)

quote: Expansionist - free scout (0.0.2) to start the game. No barbs from goodie huts, better chance of good goodies, starts game with pottery.

Better chance of good goodies is merely a side effect of no barbs

quote: -Arrian

	09-07-2004 01:10									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Dauphin I think a better balancing idea would be to have the improvements (granary, aqueduct, hospital) at half price and get rid of the extra food on the centre city tile.

Agreed totaly.
The way its now, I'm totaly addicted to Agr civs.

	09-07-2004 03:57									#24
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Ag civs grow very quickly, which forces some strategy changes (timing of settlers and workers); but I'm not complaining.

Ag civs are trully powerful.

	09-07-2004 07:43									#25
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So in a size 13 city for the English, there is a 6 commerce bonus? That rocks.

Workers go faster under industrial, no? How much faster? Anyone have figures on the increased promotion rate of militaristic? Also, the corruption bonus for commercial, could someone explain that in a way that doesn't use long mathematical formulas?

Expansionist seems to be the most worthless of the traits. Even with the trait and a few scouts I've never gotten more than 3-4 huts at the most. That's not enough of an edge in a game to really care about.

	09-07-2004 08:16									#26
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In C3C industrious workers work 150% of standard rate. In previous versions it was 200%.

Also in C3C captured workers no longer get the industrious boost.

	09-07-2004 08:35									#27
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Assuming neither civ is industrial, do captured workers work slower than native ones?

	09-07-2004 08:46									#28
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Half-speed.

	09-07-2004 09:01									#29
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ok.

So if I'm industrial and I capture workers, they don't get my bonus. What if the civ I captured them from is industrial, do they get a bonus then?

	09-07-2004 09:16									#30
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I don't think so.