07-07-2004 22:55									#1
	To all in pbem with HongHu Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

There have been a long time that I realize that I have spend too much time on Poly and on the games. Now it comes the time that I'm finally able to let it go.

For those who are in pbems with me. Sorry I had to leave you. I had great fun. Thank you all!

Here's the list of pbems that would need Gaian replacement for me:

Heart of Fire
Bear Baits
Long Road

Also replacement as pirate in the Open Book game.

	07-07-2004 22:57									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

This is a sad day

	07-07-2004 23:11									#3
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Sorry.

	07-07-2004 23:12									#4
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HongHu: Your PM box is full. Remove some messages... especially the 6 or so in your SENT folder.

	07-07-2004 23:13									#5
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Wow my head's spinning. Miracle_Mirage, Jamski, Kody, Engima, then you.

However, I do understand and I wish you the best and all happiness. You will be missed, although.

	07-07-2004 23:14									#6
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That's Minute_Mirage,
and you forgot about Frankychan.

	07-07-2004 23:20									#7
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Yes I just realized I forgot him .

Funny, it seems that there will be none of any orginial players left. Except for GeoModder. Ah well, c'est la vie I guess.

	07-07-2004 23:21									#8
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You forgot about Hercules.

	07-07-2004 23:21									#9
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Oh yes, that's right. Anybody else I forgot?

	07-07-2004 23:24									#10
	Remove this text

I'll draw you a flowchart

CMN
Barinthus

Gaians
HongHu
NONE
---
Hive
Geomodder
---
University
Minute_Mirage
Enigma_Nova
NONE
---
Morgan
Jamski
Chaunk
---
Sparta
Kody
Googlie
---
Believers
FrankyChan
Chaos Theory
---
Peacekeepers
Hercules

	07-07-2004 23:25									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

You forgot Hercules.

Geomodder wasn't original, he came in late.

	07-07-2004 23:28									#12
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That means that if Hercules leaves we'll have a whole new set of 7 battling it out. :/

	07-07-2004 23:39									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Kody Geomodder wasn't original, he came in late.

Check the intro thread, I was with the original team that started this game.

	07-07-2004 23:42									#14
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Last minute changes don't count GeoModder.

	07-07-2004 23:45									#15
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HongHu, sorry to see you going. But hey, it's summer. What are we doing sitting at a computer? Are you leaving utterly, or just PBEMs and heavy discussion?

Also, this is a particularly hard time to go, and particularly understandable. It was nice to meet you and talk.

-S

	07-07-2004 23:55									#16
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I'm not leaving utterly. I'm going together with Enigma.

I gave him a promise, that I would fight for his chance to prove he can go clean.

I'm willing to leave all my pbems, if he gives up on himself, instead of being courageous enough to admit that he was wrong and he is will to start clean, or if he did apologize, but I was not able to pursuade you guys to give him one chance. (I mean what would that cost us? One turn? Two turns? If you don't believe he can do it. Longer? That would mean he is actually winning in fighting his bad habit wouldn't it? )

I'm putting myself in the position that I have nowhere to back off. It is a hard battle for Engima, to make the mental determination of changing. The community will not lose much, but it will gain a honest member.

	08-07-2004 00:10									#17
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I'd love nothing more than to see that work HH. Ah, but making your plan known, that's not too cool. I hope Enigma will understand this. Some things have to be in the open man.

-S

	08-07-2004 00:31									#18
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* Enigma_Nova points to sig
As for leaving the PBEMs,
It's better to avoid continuing a fudged game.
Plus, University goes back in session in a week.
I won't give myself an excuse to procrastinate.

	08-07-2004 00:38									#19
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Enigma, what you said makes sense. And I would understand if you want to go back to your real life more. However I would like to see you are courageous enough to put what you have in your sig in a post.

As for making my plan known, smacksim, well I have always been a transparent person, if you ask anybody who has been with me for a while. I don't play tricks, becaus I won't play it well. I say what I think and I do what I believe is right.

	08-07-2004 00:51									#20
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

From what I have seen, the post was first and the sig came after that:
http://www.apolyton.com/forums/show...025#post3129025

	08-07-2004 00:54									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Ahh thanks AndiD. I missed that one. So Engima did apologize.

Smacksim, what do you say? Can we trust Enigma one more time and let him prove that we have trusted the right person?

	08-07-2004 01:02									#22
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Ah I see. Well, I'm coming from Bear Baiting.

Wow, look what a mess you made E_N. Don't you feel great?

	08-07-2004 01:04									#23
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I posted concerns in the BB thread HongHu.

	08-07-2004 01:06									#24
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

HongHu, I ripped my sig directly out of a post I made to AndiD.

He wasn't playing PBEMs to win, he was playing for human contact.
By cheating, I thoroughly screwed his efforts at happiness in that game.
Cheating ruined the game for -that- person.

Additionally, I see that cheating makes winning too easy. Games are pointless if you are predestined to win,
so Cheating therefore nullifies the point of the game.

Those are my motives AGAINST cheating.
Here is my motive FOR cheating:

Win more games
Which is rendered moot by having -less- games if I cheat.

---

No, I don't have the guilt / remorse actions that you expect me to.
It would be illogical to let my plans be slowed down by anything.
My life is about fixing the past. I do that by gaining wisdom and knowledge, and stopping the problems of today from pulling me down.

It's a value system. I just don't feel any resistance to my plans - regardless of whether the masses regard them as 'moral'.
The masses can screw themselves. I think I know better than they do, and intend to implement my ideas for the benefit of...
for nobody's benefit. I'm impulsed to follow my personality, as everyone else is impulsed to follow theirs.

If my personality is the type to learn and win at all costs, so be it.
I'm already of the situation - with the people on 'poly and with Sid Meier's Alien Crossfire.
I've learnt a little here.
The last thing left to learn is teamwork - win the ACDG with the support of my teammates (who won't support cheaters).

After that, I'm buggering off whether I'm banned or not.

---

My side of the story is futile because you already see your perspective.
This was a message to Kody and HongHu that I'm already damn of this game, and slowly getting of the people.

Maybe the challenge of a clean game will be interesting...

	08-07-2004 01:08									#25
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smacksim:
Stuff gets like that.

	08-07-2004 01:22									#26
	Inflate your Upload Space

I think you've seen all the points I hoped you to see. And I know you have done all that I asked you to do. And I appreciate that.

I have also laid out my thought for all to see.

Now I wish you would get your chance for the challenge of a clean game.

Bear Baits can still be an interesting game for that matter? If smacksim and others also want to play, and Kody still want to CMN, that is.

	08-07-2004 01:30									#27
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I have a better idea. Clear your PM box and we can talk about it.

	08-07-2004 01:55									#28
	Got spare money?

I have never quit a pbem yet and I don't intend to start. Some of them have died, a number have stalled and I try to help revive them; in some I have been thrashed and in all I have learnt something.

Regarding Enigma: from what I have seen in some games and in his posts, he knows and loves the game, and these forums; and like Kody says an obsessive. He doesn't need to cheat. He is a good player, with a lot of knowledge and strategic acumen but somehow the early brashness changed to an e133t stance, which made him everyones favorite target. (last year it was Archaic, this year Enigma).

And to maintain that elite glow (and I expect he enjoyed the buzz) he needed to use every exploit he knew.

Regarding all the expolits, the one I am most puzzled by, is the repeated reloading exploit to obtain favourable pop pods outcomes and probably related, the winning MW encounters with such high frequency. Why didn't my turn say;

"Excuse me, Mr Enigma may have reloaded 3,ooo times."

Anyway, what now. I believe I have seen a toned down Enigma of late.

For 'freaken' sake he even said Tnx. (This was before this exposure btw).

OK now to the pbem games: IMO a lot of games are really decided by pacts and alliances. In the games Enigma was in he was not going to find a ready long term pact partner: Heart of Fire could well have turned into a bear baiting game.

So his early advantage could well have been caught. I simply don't think/know if the searching in the dark, reactivating terraformer moves, early game reloading, gain you sufficient advantage, short to medium term, over a pact strategy.

So I am coming down on the side of saying give Enigma the chance of to prove that he is potentially a very fine player.

	08-07-2004 02:38									#29
	Got spare money?

If all players in the Heart of Fire game is willing to go ahead and Enigma is willing to go clean, I would love very much to be able to continue play that game.

	08-07-2004 03:20									#30
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I'm a little dissappointed Hong Hu.

You, 'ahem' misrepresented yourself about reasons for leaving, then said you were leaving if E_N was leaving, to try to force his hand. Now you want to play if people will adopt your position r/e Enigma cheating, to force our hand.

At least give the process some time, or withdraw your first post about leaving and correct it. Lots of people admire you and it would be hard on them to read the whole thread only to find out you were cleverly manipulating people and had no intention of leaving.

I suppose I should have PM'd this to ya, but I'm up in arms over this already. Like I said before, your 'leaving' is at a really unfortunate time. Let's keep the focus on resolving the cheating issues and not further complicate it with manipulations of the 'vote'.