08-07-2004 07:59									#31
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[/quote]QB
RB
RB
WR
WR
RB/WR
TE
K[/quote]

I'd rather it were just a WR as opposed to a RB, with regard to the RB/WR option. Slightly more realistic.

	08-07-2004 08:16									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Ok, now for comments. FFZ does their league by having each passing completion count as 1 point. That makes QBs more valuable. I like that rule. We can make it count as half a point of whatever if you think that is too much. Same for receptions, which I thought 0.5 points was good for that, but I made it back to 1 point again.

1/2 point sounds good

	08-07-2004 08:21									#33
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I don't like too many flex positions.

A fullback position would be cool. But so many teams don't use them much anymore. And scoring has always been low. But Tight Ends still get a lot of use, and they should be a position, not a flex.

QB
RB
WR
WR
TE
K
Flex (RB/WR/TE)

Team Defense

That actually looks a bit light. But that's a minimum. And I don't want strange stuff like 2 QB's.

	08-07-2004 09:23									#34
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I say:

QB
RB x2
WR x3 (Gotta love 'zona like 3 WR sets )
TE
K
Defence

	08-07-2004 09:31									#35
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quote: How much is a QB throwing TD going to be worth? 3, 4 or 6?

Usually it is 6 points, since it is a TD throwing. As for scoring values, I like the idea of completions being 0.5 or 1 point (more leaning to 0.5 actually), but I don't think Rushing attempts should count. We don't want to make RBs MORE powerful than they already are .

	08-07-2004 10:56									#36
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Still room?

PM sent, Imran.

ACK!

	08-07-2004 11:12									#37
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I was at my work, so I didn't have any opportunity to post. I still have the site in the sense that I still have the domain and a new one as well now, but I'm going to completely rebuild it. However, Poly seems stable now, so I don't think we'll need it.

quote: Originally posted by Berzerker QB RB RB WR WR RB/WR TE K Def Def Def 6 bench

I like the extra flex player, but if starting teams are going to be so big, then there should be more room for bench players.
This would lead to a longer draft, which is no problem for me, but for some it could mean...

BAPAY!!!!!

	08-07-2004 13:21									#38
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I'm in obviously....but I know it will be veeery difficult to for-peat (repeat for the fourth time...I won my league the two previous years too, even if it was not Apolyton)

	08-07-2004 13:54									#39
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quote: I like the idea of completions being 0.5 or 1 point (more leaning to 0.5 actually), but I don't think Rushing attempts should count. We don't want to make RBs MORE powerful than they already are .

The RB's who have power catch alot of passes (did you pray today ). Imagine a common performance from a heavy duty RB, 25 rushes for 95 yards with maybe 1 catch and no TD's. Maybe 5 points for the guy who really controls the game. Compare him with the WR who catches 3 passes for 40 yards - 5 points. Who was more important? Now, maybe a 1/2 per rush is too much. I don't know if we can go with 1/4 point per rush (or even 1/2 for that matter, this may be moot). But if we can give RB's some kind of bonus for rushing attempts it would help even them out with receivers. Maybe we could give RB's 1 point per 10 yds rushing

Anyway, I'm not that attached to the idea. But I did notice last year how even 2nd and 3rd string WR's typically outscored all but the elite RB's who made a bunch of catches. Consider Jamal Lewis' performance last year, but he didn't have many catches, so the best RB in the league was getting outscored by average WR's because the latter got 1 pt for touches and he got none...

Giving QB's a point per completion, which I support, makes them so dominant. We can offset their power a bit by increasing the value of both WR's and RB's.

Oh, and let's seriously consider individual defensive players. I played both ways last year here at Poly and FFZ and found having 3 defensive guys much better - a much needed dimension we missed out on at Poly. I'd like to hear the objections to this since I can't see any downside...

	08-07-2004 17:54									#40
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quote: However, Poly seems stable now, so I don't think we'll need it.

Just in case, you know?

--

Oh and some discussion on points for RB rushes.. PLEASE.

I'm against individual defensive players. Defensive players individually is very touch-and-go. Since they don't have the ball in their hands, its very spotty what they'll do. You can be relatively sure that a QB or RB or WR will do good or bad against a certain D. However, you have no clue how an individual defender will do.

Last year was the first time I played with Defensive teams, and I LOVED it! I would consider going to back to individual players to be a step back. HUGE step back.

	08-07-2004 18:11									#41
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If the QB gets a pt per completion AND the WR gets a pt per reception, how can you NOT award a point per rush attempt to the RB???

Makes no sense.

Sending PM, Imram.

	08-07-2004 18:20									#42
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Because a completion and catch are things which require actual skill. Giving the RB a point per ATTEMPT is akin to giving the QB a point per PASSING ATTEMPT, which I think is utterly foolish.

Though I wouldn't be totally adverse to a 0.25 point per rush attempt, I'd prefer maybe given a RB 1 point for every 10 yards or so, rather than 25.

	08-07-2004 18:21									#43
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For some RBs that could be 20 to 30 points a game, while the WRs usually don't get above 10. QBs completions are a different animal. I could see .5 for that. But I would also think you would want penalize for INTs.

I don't think I would like individual Defensive players. But I also never played in a league like that. Defensive teams are fun, and it seems like each year, there is one team you would never expect being the best fantasy Def team.

	08-07-2004 20:07									#44
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In terms of the RB's effect on a game being undervalued, I just think Berz has a good point. For instance, rushing success on a tough 3rd and short is critical, and there's no payoff here. But if you through a short slot/screen pass (with a very high chance of success), 2 points (QB and receiver). Hm, maybe 0.25 pt per attempt, with a heavy penalty for fumbles? Or maybe track 1st downs rushing by a player?

Just musing here... I've never played fantasy FB before so it's all a big whatever to me.

BTW, got your email and signed in, Imram.

Team Name = Cute Little Bunnies

...and it says I'm playing Sloww the first week.

	08-07-2004 20:12									#45
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You know, I was thinking. We could give a QB one point per completion, but also take away, say 0.5 points, per incomplete pass. After all, it's completion percentage that is important, but the reason to add points for completions is to make QBs more attractive.

	08-07-2004 20:27									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I'd prefer maybe given a RB 1 point for every 10 yards or so, rather than 25.

I think that, in general, yards are undervalued as opposed to scorind TD

to 1 point per rushing attempt

	08-07-2004 20:29									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui You know, I was thinking. We could give a QB one point per completion, but also take away, say 0.5 points, per incomplete pass. .

	08-07-2004 20:38									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker The RB's who have power catch alot of passes (did you pray today ). Imagine a common performance from a heavy duty RB, 25 rushes for 95 yards with maybe 1 catch and no TD's. Maybe 5 points for the guy who really controls the game. Compare him with the WR who catches 3 passes for 40 yards - 5 points. Who was more important? Now, maybe a 1/2 per rush is too much. I don't know if we can go with 1/4 point per rush (or even 1/2 for that matter, this may be moot). But if we can give RB's some kind of bonus for rushing attempts it would help even them out with receivers. Maybe we could give RB's 1 point per 10 yds rushing Anyway, I'm not that attached to the idea. But I did notice last year how even 2nd and 3rd string WR's typically outscored all but the elite RB's who made a bunch of catches. Consider Jamal Lewis' performance last year, but he didn't have many catches, so the best RB in the league was getting outscored by average WR's because the latter got 1 pt for touches and he got none... Giving QB's a point per completion, which I support, makes them so dominant. We can offset their power a bit by increasing the value of both WR's and RB's. Oh, and let's seriously consider individual defensive players. I played both ways last year here at Poly and FFZ and found having 3 defensive guys much better - a much needed dimension we missed out on at Poly. I'd like to hear the objections to this since I can't see any downside...

I think I had Jamal Lewis last year. It wasn't all that great to see him have such monster yardage, yet still not score that many points. A 200 + yard rushing game is exceptional and the points should reflect that.

But I don't like rushing attempts. Some of these guys that get stuffed are still going to rack up points. You have some old school coaches that rush even if the rushing game is not working. They could have 15 rushes for 4 yards. That's not worthy of 7 or 8 points.

I propose lowering rushing yards to 1 pt/10 yards. Rushing in today's NFL isn't that easy. At the very least lower it to 15 and keep receiving at 20.

The only possible side effect is it makes RB's too powerful again. The only complaints I have had have been QB's aren't as important as running backs in our league. I say this because like a dumbass I keep drafting a QB first round . Maybe QB competed receptions will alleviate this enough even if the RB's do get 1pt/10 or 15 yards.

	08-07-2004 20:56									#49
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I like the 1 point per completion and .5 for incomplete.

1 pt/10 yrds for Rushing is good also. If the recievers get the Pt. per catch, then the 1 pt/20 yrds should even out with the Rbs.

Just looking at the other league settings, and I like the points for a block. Have not played with that before.

	08-07-2004 21:36									#50
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quote: I propose lowering rushing yards to 1 pt/10 yards.

I think this is a great idea! Is anyone opposed to it? I want to have a robust debate so everyone can get their views in BEFORE the draft (after which rule changes will be very very very hard to get through).

It would make a 100 yard game worth 10 points instead of 5 in the old system. I think that works well.

quote: The only complaints I have had have been QB's aren't as important as running backs in our league. I say this because like a dumbass I keep drafting a QB first round

	08-07-2004 21:37									#51
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quote: Just looking at the other league settings, and I like the points for a block. Have not played with that before.

Yeah, that is kind of interesting. They do have some wierd stats around .

I wish they had one for Yards After Catch (I'd rather award points for that rather than Total Yards) and one for Drops (to penalize recievers).

	08-07-2004 21:41									#52
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blocks would be good for tight ends. I would like to place a little more importance on them.

	08-07-2004 21:43									#53
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I also like the 10 points per 10 yards for RBs. It would give the pool more balance.

The 1.0/0.5 per completion/failure is dodgy to me, because it's not always in the hands of the QB. If he throws a perfect pass, but the WR drops it, I don't think the QB should be penalized for it.

	08-07-2004 21:53									#54
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I just registered my team at that Yahoo thingy...

What's Bapay?

	08-07-2004 21:58									#55
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quote: If he throws a perfect pass, but the WR drops it, I don't think the QB should be penalized for it.

Yes, but if he throws a crap pass and the WR makes an amazing adjustment and catches it, he'll get a point for it .

quote: What's Bapay?

Best Available Player At Yahoo. Basically in the OFFLINE DRAFT (which means we draft on THESE forums and then I input the results) if you take too long (go overtime) you get BAPAY'ed.

	08-07-2004 22:01									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Yes, but if he throws a crap pass and the WR makes an amazing adjustment and catches it, he'll get a point for it .

Truesay, but I still think it's dodgy.

	08-07-2004 22:03									#57
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So what's the deal with the draft? We aren't using that order that's up there are we?

Seeing as the league creator is #1 and I'm last, I don't like it

	08-07-2004 22:07									#58
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quote: So what's the deal with the draft? We aren't using that order that's up there are we?

No. Up where, btw?

	08-07-2004 22:15									#59
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if you click on All league tools then click on draft results.

but if we are doing an offline draft it doesn't matter anyways

	08-07-2004 22:29									#60
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We have twelve people in the league now, which is really the highest we should go.

If people are still interested, they should show it. We can always open up a second league.