10-07-2004 01:40									#31
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I agree with Ogie- it's a liberal conspiracy! They knew those records showed Bush to be a great military hero of our ages, so they had them destroyed.

	10-07-2004 01:53									#32
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I do not suppose that the info which would have been on these payrol records are duplicated on the paper pay stubs that Bush has already made available some months ago? Or do IIRC that those covered in part 1972?

	10-07-2004 02:08									#33
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Maybe he was a rapist or something.

	10-07-2004 02:43									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Verto They were lost 8 years ago.

Was there any mention of these records being destroyed in 1996, or was it only destroyed '8 years ago' 8 years after the fact?

	10-07-2004 02:46									#35
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Maybe he was just really drunk...or not. Accident my codlings.

	10-07-2004 03:31									#36
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Well, how often does this sort of thing happen? Is it regular that the National Guard will lose its records, or is it a freak thing?

	10-07-2004 03:45									#37
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FOX reports he TURNED OVER all documents in February. If he forgot a month or two it is because Al Franken and his lackeys destroyed them. I would not put it past him, the bastard.

Furthermore Clinton was a draft dodger and you worship him. Shut-up already!

	10-07-2004 03:51									#38
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My military records were also accidentally destroyed, which explains the whole congressional metal of honor not giving snafu.

	10-07-2004 04:37									#39
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So let's make two hypothetical questions.

Number one - Let's say that the records were there in the Pentagon and they showed, beyond shadow of a doubt, that Bush had indeed not showed up for duty and was thus gulity of being AWOL in 1972. Does anybody here think that, were that the case, the records would have really survived to be investigated by newspaper reporters?

Number two is a continuation (and relative to my first question). Let's say the records were indeed deliberately destroyed by someone to hide what was in them about Bush from the public. Who would have the clout to make such a thing happen?

I'll the pathetic disclaimer, since some people aren't too swift at grasping the concept of "hypothetical," that I do not ascribe to these scenarios as being true. Thank you.

	10-07-2004 04:44									#40
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Imagine if Gore were president and these were his records.

	10-07-2004 04:55									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Imagine if Gore were president and these were his records.

Rush Limbaugh would probably drown in his own mouth foam over this news.

	10-07-2004 05:07									#42
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BBC is not a credible source. And neither is the NY Times quoted in the article.

and this type of storage isn't all that useful. It can be ruined accidently.

I can't care less. If this was such an issue, why was it not brought up 4 years ago/

	10-07-2004 05:13									#43
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Wiglaf sighting!

	10-07-2004 05:16									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident If this was such an issue, why was it not brought up 4 years ago/

http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS.../bushguard.cnn/

Lookie at that date.

	10-07-2004 06:00									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident BBC is not a credible source.

You're absolutely right- they're part of the worldwide liberal conspiracy to tarnish the good name of George Bush Jr., Top Gun extra ordinaire.


Is there much loco weed near where you live, Diss?

	10-07-2004 09:06									#46
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No matter how you spin it, it does not bode well for Mr Bush. If the records were really accidentally destroyed, why wasn't it mentioned earlier?

	10-07-2004 09:22									#47
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom You're absolutely right- they're part of the worldwide liberal conspiracy to tarnish the good name of George Bush Jr., Top Gun extra ordinaire. Is there much loco weed near where you live, Diss?

He's trolling. Didn't you notice him saying that the NYT isn't credible either?

Really, haven't you realized Diss is almost NEVER serious?

	10-07-2004 09:24									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger No matter how you spin it, it does not bode well for Mr Bush. If the records were really accidentally destroyed, why wasn't it mentioned earlier?

I think alot of people's precious gives a **** are broken.

	10-07-2004 11:32									#49
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quote: I do not ascribe to these scenarios as being true

Is this for your benefit? To convince yourself? Any 'question' that begins with "Gee, I wonder" is never really a question, but rather a statement in the form of a question (ie, "Gee, I wonder who ate my sandwich?", "Gee, I wonder who could have stole my boots", etc.).

	10-07-2004 12:02									#50
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quote: Furthermore Clinton was a draft dodger and you worship him. Shut-up already!

No, I worship him because he's a fellow Arkansan. Didn't you know? All Arkansans are required to give The Great Clinton a nice healthy BJ once a week.

	10-07-2004 17:40									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I do not ascribe to these scenarios as being true Is this for your benefit? To convince yourself? Any 'question' that begins with "Gee, I wonder" is never really a question, but rather a statement in the form of a question (ie, "Gee, I wonder who ate my sandwich?", "Gee, I wonder who could have stole my boots", etc.).

Yeah, and when the "Gee, I wonder" is about a hypothetical situation, since it hadn't even been established (nor did I assert) that that the destruction of said documents was deliberate or malicious?

Gee, I wonder why you didn't actually answer the questions, but just went off on another lawyerish diversionary tactic?

	10-07-2004 18:00									#52
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Answering questions is forbidden by the right wing cabal that runs our society, and has so viciously brainwashed our friend Mr Siddiqui.

The only thing worse than answering questions is asking them, which marks one off as a commie traitor.

	10-07-2004 19:00									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Alex come on, do you really believe those records were 'accidentally' destroyed?

My wife worked on a committee to save deteriorating microfiche's and microfilms for the U. of Ga libraries back in the early-mid 1990's, and, despite their best efforts, over 20% of the stock was lost. There are also a large number of films (as in movies) that are no longer extant in their original version due to deteriorating film stock, leaving us with second rate third-hand copies. Fewer than 20% of American silent films still exist in complete form, and for all films made before 1950, only 1/2 survive. Typically the problem is caused by dissolving nitrate, which separates the emulsion from the base.

Film stock based on acetate are particularly vulnerable, which constituted the majority of all microfilm/microfiche stock up to the late 1980's.

This is a real issue, and was one that only gained prominence about a decade, decade-and-a-half ago. It wasn't until 1996 that Congress authorized funds for the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) to transfer Federal acetate-microfiche records to a more stable polyester based film stock (they also required that all future Federal microfiching to use polyester film stock). Because of the rate of deterioration, the NARA, logically, was more aggressive in preserving older records (like WW1 enlistment records) than newer ones, assuming that they had more time with the 1960's-onward. However, film stock is very sensitive to storage conditions which means that many records from the later periods were still lost.

Sorry, but I don't see a conspiracy here, rather just another example of something that has been a problem for decades.

	10-07-2004 20:10									#54
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Hmm...

	11-07-2004 03:49									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Kucinich He's trolling. Didn't you notice him saying that the NYT isn't credible either? Really, haven't you realized Diss is almost NEVER serious?

actually in this case I do believe the NYT and BBC because the military themselves admitted they accidently destroyed the records. You can't dispute that I guess.

But the BBC and NYT is far too liberal to be credible on many subjects. In this case they are right though.

	11-07-2004 03:51									#56
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT My wife worked on a committee to save deteriorating microfiche's and microfilms for the U. of Ga libraries back in the early-mid 1990's, and, despite their best efforts, over 20% of the stock was lost. There are also a large number of films (as in movies) that are no longer extant in their original version due to deteriorating film stock, leaving us with second rate third-hand copies. Fewer than 20% of American silent films still exist in complete form, and for all films made before 1950, only 1/2 survive. Typically the problem is caused by dissolving nitrate, which separates the emulsion from the base. Film stock based on acetate are particularly vulnerable, which constituted the majority of all microfilm/microfiche stock up to the late 1980's. This is a real issue, and was one that only gained prominence about a decade, decade-and-a-half ago. It wasn't until 1996 that Congress authorized funds for the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) to transfer Federal acetate-microfiche records to a more stable polyester based film stock (they also required that all future Federal microfiching to use polyester film stock). Because of the rate of deterioration, the NARA, logically, was more aggressive in preserving older records (like WW1 enlistment records) than newer ones, assuming that they had more time with the 1960's-onward. However, film stock is very sensitive to storage conditions which means that many records from the later periods were still lost. Sorry, but I don't see a conspiracy here, rather just another example of something that has been a problem for decades.

As I was saying above. This type of storage isn't that useful. Very unreliable. I don't know why they don't just go to digital storage. Although even that can be unreliable in some cases.

	11-07-2004 04:25									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Gee, who would have had the influence to do such a thing? Perhaps an ex-chief of the CIA?

Have you stopped beating your boyfriend yet?

	11-07-2004 05:00									#58
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quote: Next time, buy a Japanese "gives a ****". Much more reliable.

The Japanese don't make a gives a **** for issues like this. They concentrate on higher quality products. You might be able to get a Chinese gives a **** that will deal with this non-issue, but its reliability will be questionable.

	11-07-2004 05:32									#59
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And it might have some rat feces in it.

	11-07-2004 13:06									#60
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True. Odds are greater than 90% that any given item from China will contain rat feces.