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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > Whoops! Bush's military records "accidentally" destroyed
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JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:35
  Old Post 13-07-2004 18:55
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#91 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

Here are some other email address for you to use, Boris:

Program Management Office Mailing Address

HQ DFAS/PFI
Attn:
1050 Forrer Boulevard
Dayton, OH 45420-1472

Program Director

William D. Lethgo, COL, USA
william.lethgo@dfas.mil

Deputy Director

CPT Joseph Krupa, USA
joseph.krupa@dfas.mil


PFI Financial Analyst

SFC Harold W. Kinamon, USA
harold.kinamon@dfas.mil

PFI Financial Administrator

SGT Robert W. Weeden, USA
robert.weeden@dfas.mil

PFI Administrator

SPC Donald J. Bortz, USA
donald.bortz@dfas.mil

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:35
  Old Post 13-07-2004 18:57
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#92 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Lastly, here's a handy link to a map to the base, courtesy of Mapquest. And JohnT.

Last edited by JohnT on 13-07-2004 at 19:04

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:35
  Old Post 13-07-2004 19:03
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#93 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I bow to the master.

SpencerH is offline SpencerH
King
Co-Ruler of my patch of land south of Birmingham Alabama
Feb 2002
time: 23:35
  Old Post 13-07-2004 19:11
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#94 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

JohnT wins!

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:35
  Old Post 13-07-2004 19:13
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#95 Report this post to a moderator
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The Master

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:35
  Old Post 13-07-2004 20:00
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JohnT 1, Boris -100

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:35
  Old Post 13-07-2004 21:05
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#97 Report this post to a moderator
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I'm betting this one gets archived in the JohnT vaults.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:35
  Old Post 13-07-2004 21:12
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#98 Report this post to a moderator
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I'm surprised at the naivete of people who don't think there are real conspiracies out there.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:35
  Old Post 13-07-2004 21:15
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Its not so much surprise at the possibility of conspiracy but the constant assumption that everything is one.

SpencerH is offline SpencerH
King
Co-Ruler of my patch of land south of Birmingham Alabama
Feb 2002
time: 23:35
  Old Post 13-07-2004 21:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Its not so much surprise at the possibility of conspiracy but the constant assumption that everything is one.


Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:35
  Old Post 13-07-2004 21:46
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
I beg your pardon?


Implied smiley!


quote:
1. The records were not at the Pentagon.


Excellent. So we know they were in a less secure place than the Pentagon.

quote:
2. The "clout to make such a thing happen" would reside in a larger number of people than you assume.


That's assuming the destruction would be carried out under proper channels of authorization, which I think it's safe to assume it would not be. See below:

quote:

Bush 1 calls his buddies at the CIA (1) to ask for the records to be destroyed. They research it and find that they are kept in Kettering, OH, necessitating a call to the person able to give orders ...


Here's where I would disagree with the scenario. Why does the CIA have to call anyone? They don't have to go through proper channels. Rules don't constrain people when they're engaged in dirty tricks. So one operative needs to know, get inside the facility and see to it the things are destroyed. That would minimize the hands getting involved in the mess.

quote:
Finally, if you are truly interested in tracking this down for yourself Boris


Nah, here's where my gives a **** is broken. That's when it crosses from entertainment to drudge work.

You have shown me, however, that the ability to destroy these records deliberately wasn't nearly as difficult as I thought it would be. Thanks for the info

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:35
  Old Post 13-07-2004 21:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Excellent. So we know they were in a less secure place than the Pentagon.




quote:
That's assuming the destruction would be carried out under proper channels of authorization, which I think it's safe to assume it would not be. See below:

Here's where I would disagree with the scenario. Why does the CIA have to call anyone? They don't have to go through proper channels. Rules don't constrain people when they're engaged in dirty tricks. So one operative needs to know, get inside the facility and see to it the things are destroyed. That would minimize the hands getting involved in the mess.


Oh yes, they're just going to walk in and take it, are they?

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:35
  Old Post 13-07-2004 21:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Its not so much surprise at the possibility of conspiracy but the constant assumption that everything is one.
well where there's smoke, there's fire.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:35
  Old Post 13-07-2004 22:01
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#104 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by Kucinich
[q] Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Oh yes, they're just going to walk in and take it, are they?


It's the CIA, for ****'s sake. Do you think they don't know how to infiltrate secure locations?

Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
Emperor
San Antonio TX USA
Oct 2000
time: 23:35
  Old Post 13-07-2004 22:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
well where there's smoke, there's fire.
Where there is stupid posts, there are stupid posters?

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:35
  Old Post 13-07-2004 22:10
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#106 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:35
  Old Post 13-07-2004 22:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
It's the CIA, for ****'s sake. Do you think they don't know how to infiltrate secure locations?




*mission impossible music plays*

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:35
  Old Post 13-07-2004 22:28
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#108 Report this post to a moderator
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I'm picturing Dick Cheney in all-black with a knit cap, descending from a ceiling on a cable...

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:35
  Old Post 13-07-2004 22:35
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#109 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
It's the CIA, for ****'s sake. Do you think they don't know how to infiltrate secure locations?


If the latest Senate intelligence report is any indication, they don't...

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:35
  Old Post 14-07-2004 00:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I'm picturing Dick Cheney in all-black with a knit cap, descending from a ceiling on a cable...


I was thinking more along the lines of John Belushi in Animal House.

Straybow is offline Straybow
Emperor
SG(2)… gone but not forgotten
Jan 1970
time: 23:35
  Old Post 14-07-2004 10:30 Visit Straybow's homepage!
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quote:
It's the CIA, for ****'s sake. Do you think they don't know how to infiltrate secure locations?
No, I don't think the CIA maintains data about largely irrelevent military pay records such that they would know where to find those of GWB.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:35
  Old Post 24-07-2004 02:06 Visit Dis's homepage!
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#112 Report this post to a moderator
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well this is interesting.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=sto...rds_2&printer=1

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:35
  Old Post 24-07-2004 02:44
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#113 Report this post to a moderator
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I was just about to post this too. Here's the article for the lazy among us...

*********

Pentagon Finds Bush's Guard Records

4 minutes ago Add Top Stories - AP to My Yahoo!


By MATT KELLEY, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The Pentagon (news - web sites) on Friday released newly discovered payroll records from President Bush (news - web sites)'s 1972 service in the Alabama National Guard, though the records shed no new light on the future president's activities during that summer.

A Pentagon official said the earlier contention that the records were destroyed was an "inadvertent oversight."


Like records released earlier by the White House, the newly released computerized payroll records show no indication Bush drilled with the Alabama unit during July, August and September of 1972. Pay records covering all of 1972, released previously, also indicated no guard service for Bush during those three months.


The records do not give any new information toward determining whether Bush kept his National Guard commitments during 1972, when he transferred to the Alabama National Guard unit so he could work on the U.S. Senate campaign of a family friend.


White House spokesman Trent Duffy said Bush kept his service commitments, pointing to the fact that Bush was honorably discharged in 1973.


The release came days before Democrats began their national convention in Boston to officially nominate Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites) as their presidential candidate. Military veterans are being tapped at the convention to help tell Kerry's story as he prepares to accept the party's nomination next week.


Democrats have sought to contrast Bush's National Guard service with Kerry's Vietnam War record. Kerry enlisted in the Navy, volunteered for combat in Vietnam and earned several medals including a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts. After returning from Vietnam, Kerry became a prominent anti-war activist.


The Associated Press had asked a federal judge on July 16 to order the Pentagon to quickly turn over a copy of the pay records. The AP had sued under the Freedom of Information Act to obtain the records from a state library records center in Texas.


Records of Bush's National Guard service released previously did not conclusively show whether Bush fulfilled his service requirements in 1972 and 1973, during the Vietnam War.


Bush had transferred to an Alabama National Guard unit while he worked on the U.S. Senate campaign of Republican Winton Blount.


The Pentagon had said that the payroll records for that time period had been inadvertently destroyed.


"Previous attempts to locate the missing records at the Federal Records Center had been unsuccessful due to the incorrect records accession numbers provided," the Pentagon's Office of Freedom of Information chief C.Y. Talbott said in a letter Friday to The Associated Press.


"The correct numbers were obtained ... and the records were found."


Talbott wrote that the Defense Department "regrets this inadvertent oversight during the initial search and the delay it caused in your receipt of these materials."


(UPDATES throughout with records shedding no new light on Guard service question; corrects name of Pentagon official to Talbott, sted Talbot; DELETES outdated final graf. No pickup.)

Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
Emperor
San Antonio TX USA
Oct 2000
time: 23:35
  Old Post 24-07-2004 04:15
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#114 Report this post to a moderator
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The smear was irrelevant anyway, they went duplicate by patstub records that that Bush had keep a supplied to the press over a year ago.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

Emperor
Dixie
Oct 2000
time: 23:35
  Old Post 24-07-2004 05:25
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#115 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT

Finally, if you are truly interested in tracking this down for yourself Boris (rather than rely on positing hypothetical situations based upon incorrect assumptions), why not contact them yourself?

DFAS Dayton
1050 Forrer Boulevard
Dayton OH 45420-1472

Vendor Pay Customer Service Email Address: cco-dy-vpis@dfas.mil

Accounting Records Customer Service Email Address: ddy-a@dfas.mil

We eagerly await your results.


While your at it Boris ask why my ****ing travel pay hasn't been deposited

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:35
  Old Post 24-07-2004 07:40 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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#116 Report this post to a moderator
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I assume the keep paper records and microfische records in seperate places?

molly bloom is offline molly bloom
Prince
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:35
  Old Post 24-07-2004 07:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Oh yes, they're just going to walk in and take it, are they?


You mean like the way 'they' just misled Congress about the CI.A.'s involvement in destabilizing Angola BEFORE the arrival of Cuban troops there?


Or the way that the Arbenz government was portrayed to the American public by Eisenhower and the C.I.A. as being pro-Communist when it was anything but, because it had had the temerity to ask for some taxes from United Fruit and have a look at land redistribution- that just didn't sit so well with certain members of the C.I.A. who just happened to be friends of people in United Fruit or on the board themelves. Allen Foster Dulles, head of the C.I.A. at the time, had been President of..... United Fruit; John Foster Dulles, Secretary of State, had been legal adviser to........


United Fruit. Henry Cabot Lodge, Ambassador to the United Nations, was on the board of Directors of ....United Fruit.

John Moors Cabot, Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs had a large share-holding in......

United Fruit.


And finally, Walter Bedell Smith, Director of the C.I.A. prior to Dulles, became the President of the....


United Fruit Company, after the overthrow of the Arbenz government.


Frankly, I doubt the Mafia looks after their own better.


Richard Russell, the Democratic Senator from Georgia, once gave the following explanation of why he led the fight against a resolution to provide for better Congressional scrutiny of the CIA:


(Russell noted that the statement had been made on the floor, that the Armed Services subcommittee of which he was a member, had not revealed to the country what it had learned about CIA operations)


"No, Mr. President," Russell said, "we have not told the country, and I do not propose to tell the country in the future, because if there is anything in the United States which should be held sacred behind the curtain of classified matter, it is information regarding the activities of this agency...It would be better to abolish it out of hand than it would be to adopt a theory that such information should be spread and made available to every member of Congress and to the members of the staff of any committee. "

Former CIA director Allen Foster Dulles (remember? the United Fruit guy?), speaking before a Congressional committee:


'Any investigation, whether by a congressional committee or any other body, which results in disclosure of our secret activities and operations or uncovers our personnel, will help a potential enemy just as if the enemy had been able to infiltrate his own agents right into our shop.'

Or the American public might find out you overthrew a government in Central America so that you could make more money.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:35
  Old Post 24-07-2004 08:05 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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#118 Report this post to a moderator
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Frankly, I don't see why the CIA needs to be involved. You think the military isn't going to do favors for an ex-President's son?

 
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