21-07-2004 07:16									#31
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1625 BC

This game has me... worried.

I've still only met the Persians, having evidently explored in all the wrong directions. So now I am sending 4 Hoplites to the NE to find out who is up there (and maybe get in a little pillaging). I'm considering sending another 4 to block the chokepoint to the Persian SE.

I completed Literature before anyone else... no luck on an SGL. I'm not trading it to Persia yet, in the hopes of meeting at least one more AI civ first. Could backfire on me, but I really need to do multiple trades for it, as Persia is ahead of me by Masonry, Pottery, WC, and CB.

I'm circling back for CB at a 4 turn pace, with an eye towards supersizing Athens.

The only GW under way currently is the Pyramids in Persepolis.

What's got me worried? I figure Rome HAS to have met more AI civs than I have, and Nathan is coming up with all sorts of evil Machiavellian plans!!

So, I dunno, I'm worried about tech, civ relations, not REXing enough, REXing to much, not building enough military, or too much, or the wrong kind...

I am determined to keep to a pretty strict 3-tile spacing for defense, though, and will probably be more likely to build on hills than I otherwise would. I feel OK about that at least.

Suggestions welcome!

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	21-07-2004 07:42									#32
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Well, that was fast... next turn the Persians started the GLib.

Prolly cost me a tech or two.

	21-07-2004 09:21									#33
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OMG, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!

I met the Babs, and they did not even have Alphabet!!! YAY!!

First move: Bring science back to 0% in F1, as I obviously want to grab as much as I can trading a combo of tech and gpt.

I traded with Babs for Pottery and WC, paying Alpha. Then, the Wheel, paying Writing and 2gpt.

Then, Masonry from Persia for the Wheel and 1 gpt.

Then, Mysticism and 6g from Babs for Lit.

Tech parity, and ahead of Persia by Mysticism!!

AAAAND, Persia has neither strategic or luxury resources!!

Oooh, I feel better now.

	21-07-2004 10:02									#34
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G*ddamn it takes a long time to chop jungle... I'm working on the bananas at Athens99.

	21-07-2004 19:19									#35
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24 base worker turns, IIRC. Sucks, doesn't it? That's why worker pumps are so damn useful.

I like doing it with teams of 3 workers. 8 turns to chop, 1 to road, 2 to mine.

-Arrian

	22-07-2004 04:39									#36
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So... no one has any bright ideas for me?

	22-07-2004 06:08									#37
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Place a city 8-3 of Delphi?

	22-07-2004 06:09									#38
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Met Egypt... Cleo did not have Lit, so traded it plus 5 gpt for Poly. She and Hammy are now cautious, and Jerxes is annoyed (but still has no resources ). Sell Poly to Jerxes for 60g. Am at tech parity.

	22-07-2004 21:36									#39
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So... Nathan got Philosophy, eh? It just dropped from 6 turns remaining to 2.

And I'm guessing he's got at least two Pumps.

We shall see, we shall see.

	23-07-2004 00:58									#40
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Heh. Death, taxes, settler pumps from Nathan...

But who is to say a man can't change? Maybe he figured he needs to be a tad more military-minded early on since he's playing you?

-Arrian

	23-07-2004 04:08									#41
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C'mon guys, I need help!!

I just realized today not getting to Philosophy first was... beyooond stupid. I could have EASILY had it.

* Theseus has this idiotic persona that comes to the surface mor often than he'd like.

Here's my current thinking...

I wanted to get a militarily strong base of towns in place, fast. It is my expectation that Nathan and I will be bribing the AI civs into MAs against each other more quickly than is usually the case, so this was important to me, especially considering the proximity of the Persians.

I have now accomplished that. From a defensive military perspective, the next step will be to clear danger tiles around my towns.

To do this, I was willing to forego Granaries, and built Settlers at typically three pop rather than waiting longer. This, compared to Nathan's Settler Pump driven REXing accounts for the catch-up in score. I am OK with that, and anticipate Athens and the first ring of towns to now grow into powerhouses.

Additionally, I now that I want three outlier towns: 1) I've built one at the tip of the NE chain of hills... defense from Babs and Egypt; 2) to the SE, on a hill, for the gems; and 3) directly south, for the spices. Again, especially with the latter two, my core cities should be ready to explode... also, with 3 luxuries and a Temple, I can join Workers to Athens to get it to 12 pop (I think... might be only 10 or 11 until a Market is built, but that's still good).

Sound good?

And don;t let me make bonehead mistakes like I did on philosophy!!!

	23-07-2004 17:02									#42
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I think you should try and set up a 2-turn worker pump if you can. Any spot you can do that, other than Athens?

You're gonna need lotsa workers, T. Given what you expect re: humans forging alliances with the AI against each other, it's only a matter of time before somebody hits your hoplites and triggers your GA. It will probably be despotic. That GA won't be wasted if you have enough population working developed tiles... which means you need a worker pump, bothto develop tiles and to add pop to cities. IMO, of course.

-Arrian

	23-07-2004 17:04									#43
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Hmm, looking at the best screenie you posted...

Corinth can be a worker pump if it gets Athen's cow.
Sparta could be, but not in despotism. The 2 fp tiles would do it once you're not despotic anymore, though.

By the way, what government are you angling for? Republic or Monarchy?

-Arrian

	23-07-2004 23:56									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus C'mon guys, I need help!!

I'm following everyone's DARs (including Nathan's), and don't want to provide any advice for fear that my privileged knowledge could (unconsciously) influence any advice I might give to someone.

I'll jump in with any "game mechanics corrections" if I think you're forgetting something about how the game operates and it bears upon your own tactical or strategic decision-making.

Catt

	24-07-2004 00:50									#45
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Yea, that is an issue for us lookyloos. Putting in anything that is not fair. Not just use of any knowledge of the map, but would it be fair for someone to point out a play that had not occurred to the turn player, I am not sure.

It seems fine to take a side on a posed question such as one is choosing bewteen A and B, but not for us to provide the idea of B.

	24-07-2004 02:24									#46
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Fair enough.

OK, I completed Philosophy... in a happy recovery from my boneheadedness, it still has very significant trade value.

Philo to Persia for HBR, Mapmaking, and 90g.
Philo and Mapmaking to Babs for IW and 320g.
Mapmaking gifted to Egypt, turns polite.

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	24-07-2004 03:29									#47
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In 1025 BC, I established embassies with all known civs...

OH NATHAAAAN, I SEE YOU!!!

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	24-07-2004 03:31									#48
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Babs are 17 turns from TofA.
Egypt is 11 turns from Pyramids.
Persia is 11 turns from Pyramids.

I am soon to meet the Germanics, methinks.

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	24-07-2004 06:11									#49
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1000 BC, met the Germanic peoples... they are losers.

Finished the granary in Athens... torn between pumping out Workers, pumping out vet Warriors for when I hook to the NW iron, or going for the Mausolleum in 20 turns or so.

Any thoughts?

	24-07-2004 07:32									#50
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Well I am not too sure I would want to spend a lot of turns on the Mausolleum. Either of the other choices seem better.

	24-07-2004 08:29									#51
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Thanks for the input, v.

I don't have a definitive plan, but I guess I was thinking that having Athens at 11- or 12 pop and very happy could be useful/powerful.

Agreed, as it's my only barracks city, getting a bunch of vet Warriors ready for upgrade is a more tangible function.

I'm torn.

Do you see a meaningful and valid role for a big Athens?

	24-07-2004 10:38									#52
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To be truthful I do not know how to proceed. I would figure that it is better to be prepared to grab land when it can be gotten.
This means workers and settlers and troops to defend those new lands.

I am going on the premise you guys can't take cities from the AI or only have some limit to attacking them.

If that is my tactic, then most cities will not get very large in the ancient age. I forget what level you guys are on, but I see diamonds and spices and if you have ivory (can't recall), then you could try to grow it to 12 to build a wonder at some point.

I just do not want the other human to get them, more than I want them.

	24-07-2004 19:06									#53
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The Persians attacked me, kicking off my GA... Athens can build the Mausoelum in 12 turns, so I am going for it. I am the only one currently building it, although there is a risk that I will lose out in a cascade.

Not too worried about Persia... as far as I know, they still do not have IW, so are attacking with Archers and Warriors. Thus, through Barbs and them, I already have two elite Hoplites.

Nathan will see the effects of the GA in the F11 stats, where I have skyrocketed. Although I would have preferred it in Monarchy, this is a not-so-bad despotic GA, as I am up to 10 towns. It bums me out a little that I still really want to finish a bit of my strategic REX to get resources... each Settler built means less tiles worked, and thus foregone shields. C'est la vie.

	25-07-2004 07:27									#54
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So... the lessons of AU 503 are applied.

[Edit: Those are horses underneath the Hoplites. ]

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Last edited by Theseus on 25-07-2004 at 08:31

	25-07-2004 07:42									#55
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My guess is that Nathan upgraded to Legions somewhere around or just before 1000BC... and that he is over-REXing.

He prolly thought he had my ass KICKED for a few turns there, and is now wondering how I got back into the game in terms of tech, pop (2), GNP (1), Mfg. Goods (1), Literacy (1), and Productivity (1),

* Theseus snickers.

Last edited by Theseus on 25-07-2004 at 08:33

	25-07-2004 07:44									#56
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Oops, forgot to attach the pic:

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	25-07-2004 07:53									#57
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BTW, for newer players, I'd like to point something out...

I don;t micromanage nearly as much as many of the better players do, even early in the game.

I mean, OF COURSE, I do not automate Workers, but, if you scroll up to the first post on this page, you will see that I usually have the governor on for most of my towns/cities, set to manage happiness.

That means I don;t really closely manage the work force (i.e., not Workers, but inside your city view which tiles get worked). Instead, one of the things I really focus on is tile improvement... prioritize as cracker advises (see CFC), but I add another layer, which is the number of towns/cities that can access a given tile. This is especially important when adhering to tighter CP patterns.

So, in this case, if a tile can be accessed by three towns... bang, it is one of my top priorities. This is where I will first make the investment to clear jungle. Next priority, high value tiles that serves two towns. And etcetera.

Works for me.

	25-07-2004 08:08									#58
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775 BC: I complete Monarchy. After trading, I believe I am either at parity or the outright leader, including Nathan.

Switch Athens to Hanging Gardens in 11 turns. There is a GW cascade going on, and I might lose all the shields accumulated in Athens... Que sera sera.

I will not enter anarchy, of course, until my GA is done. Circling back for Math, which evidently no one has researched, in 4 turns at 0.9.1.

Did I make a mistake in researching Monarchy? I forgot about being SCI, and thus gaining the free tech on entering the new age... should I have only been researching mandatories? Like Philo, not the end of the world, as Monarchy is highly valued. Still, I feel like I am not performing optimally.

Where the heck are the Celts and Carthagos?

	25-07-2004 08:25									#59
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I cannot COMMUNICATE how much I am sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for the next save from Nathan. The big issue is the GW in Athens, but I have little projects all over the place that are CRITICAL.

"One more turn..." indeed!

	25-07-2004 09:13									#60
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750 BC: F*ck, got burned on the cascade. Stupid to even try in a capitol. Wasted 70 shields, and will now have a Courthouse in Athens. Should've built Warriors.

Peace with Persia... got 80g and ROP (I want to keep heading east, and their troops are nowhere near me) for it.

Last edited by Theseus on 25-07-2004 at 19:57