21-07-2004 21:42									#181
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker GengisFarb - 7.5/10. You got a bite, but it wasn't perfect.

Naw, that's giving me too much credit. The only thing to bite was Chez-Its, and he bites at everything. Kinda like catching a soggy boot.

	21-07-2004 21:45									#182
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Ogie Oglethorpe... great story. I get sick and tired on hearing how it is just a one way street...

	21-07-2004 21:54									#183
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W/regard to the Carlos Delgado thing... that's too bad.

I'm a Yankees fan - I watch pretty much every game - and I am SO SICK AND TIRED of that GODDAMNED SONG!! I hate the 7th inning stretch now. I change the channel. The song irritates me on a number of levels. So I sympathize with Mr. Delgado.

However, being booed is part 'n parcel of what ballplayers deal with. They get booed for far less than that, you know. He will be booed simply for being a Blue Jay. Hell, if it's just booing, I'm sure he will be pleased. Far worse has been done to visiting players in NYC.

-Arrian

	21-07-2004 22:09									#184
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Naw, that's giving me too much credit. The only thing to bite was Chez-Its, and he bites at everything. Kinda like catching a soggy boot.

I think your confusing che with Aggie

	21-07-2004 22:33									#185
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe From that right wing rag Wall Street Journal.

It is right wing, and it is a rag when it comes to its editorials. The WSJ is good for financial news, and that's about it.

quote: The oppressed conservatives in Tinsel Town.

Note how the article utterly fails to prove its allegations that there is actual "oppression" of conservatives, or even an effort to stifle them. it even goes on to list:

quote: In addition to Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Tinseltown rebels include Bo Derek, Bruce Willis, Tom Selleck, Dennis Miller, Mel Gibson, Chuck Norris, Ben Stein, Pat Sajak, Kelsey Grammer, Danny Aiello, Patricia Heaton and James Woods

Hey, last time I checked, none of those guys had careers that seemed to be suffering from oppression. Schwarzenegger, Willis and Gibson alone account for billions of box office dollars. They also forgot to mention some other biggies, such as Gary Oldman and The Rock. Sorry, I can't take seriously the notion that these actors have suffered unduly because of their political views.

	21-07-2004 22:40									#186
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How many of them have been fired for expressing their views, OR have been boycotted?

The left doesn't in general give a damned about the opinions of right-wing stars.

	21-07-2004 23:09									#187
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I can believe that those repub celebs might be snubbed here and there by their liberal counterparts (and vice-versa), but I doubt it goes much beyond that.

-Arrian

	21-07-2004 23:10									#188
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I think the fear is that the lesser known Repub actors, writers, directors would loose out on jobs that they otherwise would have gotten.

	21-07-2004 23:21									#189
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I love the denial from the liberals... like they want to think that bad things only happen to liberals... Talk about seeing life through rose colored glasses...

	21-07-2004 23:29									#190
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I think the fear is that the lesser known Repub actors, writers, directors would loose out on jobs that they otherwise would have gotten.

But it offers no proof that it happens. It only offers this weak phrase:

"noting that while it's hard to prove, it's kind of obvious when actors get cut from auditions right after the subject of politics is brought up."

Now there's a convincing argument.

I'm sure some people have been mistreated because of their views, but I see nothing to indicate it's a widespread, horrific problem in Hollywood.

Hollywood is far too shallow for me to take this seriously. Casting directors don't give a damn about people's politics, they want to know if they are wonderfully sexy-looking, can read a script, perhaps have a smidgen of acting talent (though not a necessity), and that they won't be difficult to manage.

I think perhaps people are making excuses for their failures in securing parts. Talentless people like to do this rather than recognize/admit that they're devoid of talent.

	21-07-2004 23:36									#191
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quote: Show-biz types who lift the Democratic banner and think Che is cool delight in seeing themselves as revolutionary and antiestablishment,

Very few Hollywood types even know who I am, let alone think I'm cool (though the ones that do know me think I'm cool).

	22-07-2004 01:14									#192
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I think the fear is that the lesser known Repub actors, writers, directors would loose out on jobs that they otherwise would have gotten.

RIGHHHHHT- of course.

Since no one can give a single example, I find this dubious at best.

	22-07-2004 01:30									#193
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The mere fact that many Hollywood actors have been reluctant to make it known that they are a Republican (there was a good interview with Tom Selleck about that in George Magazine) indicates that there probably has been some backlash against some Republican actors (or else why would they be so scared).

	22-07-2004 01:32									#194
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui (or else why would they be so scared).

Maybe they just have an irrational fear that they'd be treated they way that they would treat the liberals, were the proportions reversed?

	22-07-2004 01:33									#195
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How is that irrational?

	22-07-2004 01:35									#196
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker How is that irrational?

Because there's no real evidence that it's a problem?

	22-07-2004 01:36									#197
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How is it irrational to assume that the other people would act just like they would?

	22-07-2004 01:37									#198
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quote: Maybe they just have an irrational fear that they'd be treated they way that they would treat the liberals, were the proportions reversed?

Speaking of irrational, believing that they would treat liberals the same way if it was reversed .

'Coming Out' in Hollywood means declaring you are a Republican. I think they are genuinely scared of being denied roles because of their political affiliation and I don't think for a second that it is irrational.

	22-07-2004 01:37									#199
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker How is it irrational to assume that the other people would act just like they would?

Because there's no real evidence that they act that way, just speculation?

You do understand what "rational" vs. "irrational" means, right?

	22-07-2004 01:39									#200
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui The mere fact that many Hollywood actors have been reluctant to make it known that they are a Republican (there was a good interview with Tom Selleck about that in George Magazine) indicates that there probably has been some backlash against some Republican actors (or else why would they be so scared).

Bull- not wanting to paint yourself as an outsider is a basic human problem- if a conseravtive actors sees eveyrone around them as openly liberal, they will have an inclination not to paint themselves as being an outsider. That is totally distinct from conservaitves actually being discriminated upon and not finding work due to their beliefs, which is a different matter.

	22-07-2004 01:41									#201
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His point is that it is rational to think that other people would treat you the way you would treat them. It makes sense, in a roundabout kind of way. It's rational to THEM, even if it's not to us, and it's how they see themselves that matters in this context.

	22-07-2004 01:42									#202
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quote: That is totally distinct from conservaitves actually being discriminated upon and not finding work due to their beliefs, which is a different matter.

If you read things that 'outed' Republicans have said (such as the Selleck article) is that they have known of cases were actors get turned down for a role once their Republican political affiliation is recognized. I don't think they are lying.

	22-07-2004 01:43									#203
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I don't think for a second that it is irrational.

Then find me some hard evidence of there being a widespread trend of people being denied acting roles based on their political affiliation. That's all I ask.

	22-07-2004 01:43									#204
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So is the disparity between this kind of thing being reported because liberals whine about it more, or that liberals are more often the victims?

	22-07-2004 01:43									#205
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Rational != correct.

It is rational to assume, in the absense of contrary evidence, that other people will behave similarly to oneself.

	22-07-2004 01:44									#206
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quote: Then find me some hard evidence of there being a widespread trend of people being denied acting roles based on their political affiliation.

Ask the 'outed' Republicans. They know of cases. They aren't going to divulge the producers and directors who did it because they want to work as well.

	22-07-2004 01:46									#207
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui they have known of cases were actors get turned down for a role once their Republican political affiliation is recognized..

Yeah, like how everyone "knows" a guy who knew the girl in the dog/peanut butter story.

Where are the actual cases of it happening, as opposed to someone knowing of someone who knew of someone who knew... etc., ad infinitum?

And not isolated cases, either, but enough to justify a claim that conservative actors have been denied roles based on their political views?

You know, it's perfectly possible that a conservative actor didn't get a part because they wanted a better actor, isn't it?

	22-07-2004 01:49									#208
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Rational != correct. It is rational to assume, in the absense of contrary evidence, that other people will behave similarly to oneself.

Rational = supported by evidence. One's own prejudices are hardly a rational basis for assuming the behavior of others. You almost sound like a Creationist, i.e., it's rational to believe something to be true, without any evidence to support it, so long as you believe in it enough and it absolutely can't be proven wrong.

	22-07-2004 01:50									#209
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Reminds me of all the times I've heard a white guy going, "I'd have got the job too if it wasn't for affirmative action", when obviously they have no way of knowing if the policy had any effect upon their success. But the thought it could be their own fault never occurs to them.[/off-topic and some more]

Come on, Boris, even I get the rationality point. you're being irrational now.

	22-07-2004 01:56									#210
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Rational = supported by evidence.

Rational = logical.

In the absense of contrary evidence, the logical assumption is that the other people will act similarly to oneself.