20-07-2004 04:25									#1
	Linda Rondstadt fired for supporting Michael Moore! What about freedom of Speech? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I think we need another freedom of speech thread.

I read the entire article. I can't believe she was booted off the property just for dedictating a song to Michael Moore. Las Vegas was the wrong place to be doing that. We're still a conservative town for the most part. And tourists here don't want to hear that crap, they come here for vacation. They want to get away from politics.

Although I can see firing her as a business desicion. If almost half of your fans walk out of your concert, that won't bode well for future concert sales.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/drudged/517195568.html

	20-07-2004 04:27									#2
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This isn't a freedom of speech issue - the 1st Amendment doesn't apply outside of the government and what the government does.

The casino was fully within their rights to kick her out.

	20-07-2004 04:27									#3
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It isn't a Freedom of Speech issue. You have to right to speak your mind, but then your employer has the right to decide to let you use his/her property to express those views. It'd be a free speech issue if the employer was the government.

	20-07-2004 04:28									#4
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I promise Imran and I didn't collaborate on the last two posts

	20-07-2004 04:28									#5
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Damn you, Floyd!

	20-07-2004 04:41									#6
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Hey, if a business can let me go for protesting on company time, then they can do the same for Ronstadt.

	20-07-2004 04:48									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Hey, if a business can let me go for protesting on company time, then they can do the same for Ronstadt.

My God, what idiots.

Never, ever, let the company know your political leanings.

	20-07-2004 05:08									#8
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Why not?

If it doesn't matter, why should they care what you do on your own time?

The only thing I can think of is that it does matter, even though they say it doesn't.

And for the record, I have not been fired for protesting, it's just a hypothetical example.

	20-07-2004 05:12									#9
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What's particularly telling is that they didn't even let her go back to her room to pick up her own stuff. That's not just termination of employment -- that's harassment and intimidation. A right-winger would have been better treated if they had expressed support for Hitler.

Can anyone say "the right-wing insistence on political correctness is far stronger than the left-wing PC?"

	20-07-2004 05:16									#10
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quote: Can anyone say "the right-wing insistence on political correctness is far stronger than the left-wing PC?"

Is her employer a Republican?

It's not good for business to bring politics into a situation where people are trying to get away from politics.

	20-07-2004 05:17									#11
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd This isn't a freedom of speech issue - the 1st Amendment doesn't apply outside of the government and what the government does. The casino was fully within their rights to kick her out.

yeah I know. I just needed to get the conversation started.

	20-07-2004 05:19									#12
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Ben:

Thus it's understandable that they won't hire her. But come on, now -- "escorted from the premises" without even being allowed to go back to her room to get her own things? Reverse the politics and picture the insane gay-bashing, race-baiting, fascist hatred that it would take to induce that reaction.

Last edited by debeest on 21-07-2004 at 00:15

	20-07-2004 05:25									#13
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Many people are fired, and are escorted off the property with their personal items shipped to them... but I guess some people have to make this a right wing vs left wing rant... typical

	20-07-2004 05:35									#14
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Ming, you often insult someone and then put a winking smiley with it, as if to say that you're just kidding -- but I don't think you are.

Come on, come right out and say it -- you seriously don't believe that this is a right-wing owner and purely a political issue.

	20-07-2004 05:42									#15
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So what if he doesn't? Why does he have to 'come right out and say it'? To waste a post?

I think:

quote: Hundreds of angry fans streamed from the theater as Ronstadt sang. Some of them reportedly defaced posters of her in the lobby, writing comments and tossing drinks on her pictures.

points to the fact that this ain't a political issue with the owner at all, but a business issue.

	20-07-2004 05:45									#16
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No, this is a greedy, ruthless casino owner looking at dollar signs, and escorting her off the property is one way of limiting liability. Rondstadt isn't some poor little waif, so if anything of hers was damaged, missing, or if she was intimidated, harassed, or any other tortious conduct, she could sue the casino's pants off. It may be in bankruptcy and in the process of being sold, but lawsuits filed post-bankruptcy petition can be quite disruptive to sales plans.

	20-07-2004 05:52									#17
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She's paid to sing, not to get up on a soap box and share her ruminations w/ the world in that setting.

	20-07-2004 06:29									#18
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quote: Originally posted by debeest Ming, you often insult someone and then put a winking smiley with it, as if to say that you're just kidding -- but I don't think you are. Come on, come right out and say it -- you seriously don't believe that this is a right-wing owner and purely a political issue.

I'm not kidding... Casinos are in business to make money... anybody that pisses off paying customers is a liability. They would have done the same to either somebody that supported Moore, or bashed Moore, "IF" it cost them "Paying" customers.

	20-07-2004 06:34									#19
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who the hell is linda ronstadt?

	20-07-2004 06:41									#20
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Who is Linda Ronstadt?

	20-07-2004 06:44									#21
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Now we see why she goes for Moore.

	20-07-2004 06:53									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Why not? If it doesn't matter, why should they care what you do on your own time? The only thing I can think of is that it does matter, even though they say it doesn't.

Of course it'll matter, it'll affect their judgement of your character.

Like it or not, people are not fully rational. A lot of employers may not think the same of you if they found out you're rabidly pro-life and so religious, particularly if your boss happens to be a hippy or something.

It's best to just shut up and not talk about it, or risk alienating coworkers and/or bosses.

	20-07-2004 06:56									#23
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quote: Of course it'll matter, it'll affect their judgement of your character. Like it or not, people are not fully rational. A lot of employers may not think the same of you if they found out you're rabidly pro-life and so religious, particularly if your boss happens to be a hippy or something.

If it doesn't affect my job performance, than who's fault is that?

Would it be better for me to keep that from them and have them find out later?

I used to care, but now I don't. If they don't want me working for them, then that's fine with me.

Their loss.

	20-07-2004 07:08									#24
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quote: Ming, you often insult someone and then put a winking smiley with it, as if to say that you're just kidding -- but I don't think you are.

Wasn't an insult, just an observation

	20-07-2004 07:15									#25
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Why do famous people think that we care what they think?

	20-07-2004 07:19									#26
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Look at this thread... obviously someone cares what they think.

	20-07-2004 07:19									#27
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Because we start threads about them when they speak?

	20-07-2004 07:24									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi If it doesn't affect my job performance, than who's fault is that?

It'll affect your job performance in that it'll limit where you can go in the company.

It's not your fault, it's not theirs, it's just the way it is.

You want to keep your employer's opinion of you objective, don't give them anything that can make a bias.

quote: Would it be better for me to keep that from them and have them find out later?

If they find out, they find out. No reason to tell them, nor do anything stupid like using company time to protest...nor just idly bringing up "I hate them gays" or "I don't like women makin' any choices!".

quote: I used to care, but now I don't. If they don't want me working for them, then that's fine with me. Their loss.

Actually, it would be your loss. Young people fresh out of university with an artsy degree are hardly a rare commodity, you can be replaced easily. Whereas, finding a good job for you is tough.

All in all, it'd be your loss.

	20-07-2004 07:34									#29
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I recently bought a Linda Ronstadt CD, unfortunately it didn't have her version of Blue Bayou but a lot of other good tracks.

Wonderful singer - Norah Jones is very similar.

I got the Ronstadt CD because Norah cost $30 and Linda cost $5

	20-07-2004 07:34									#30
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quote: And tourists here don't want to hear that crap, they come here for vacation. They want to get away from politics.

I think you just got to the heart of the matter.

This is from the AP article about it:

quote: In an interview with the Las Vegas Review-Journal before the show, Ronstadt said ``I keep hoping that if I'm annoying enough to them, they won't hire me back.''

Perhaps they were already predisposed to show her off the premises as soon as she gave them an excuse, too.