20-07-2004 13:07									#1
	CoC: Replacement Proposal Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: The Senate has the power to take a proposal for Change of Command (CoC). a. Any Senator may proclaim a Change of Command proposal on an elected official. b. The Senator must state the elected official he is intending to remove from office in the first post - this is called the 'initial proposal'. c. During 48 hours after the initial proposal, any number of candidates may apply for the job. The Senator himself may or may not apply. d. After the first 48 hours, but within 72 hours, the Senator must organize a vote - this is called the 'replacement proposal'. If this vote is not organized within this time, the CoC is nulled. e. The replacement proposal vote must be open for 72 hours. f. The replacement proposal vote must include all candidates, plus the person who was the subject of the initial proposal, unless this person indicates otherwise. g. The CoC vote shall be done with a preferential ballot. The person with the highest outcome wins the election. h. An elected official may only propose a Change of Command vote on himself, and not on another one. i. Any elected official may not be the subject of a CoC for five turns after his election.

Please vote for whom you think should be our Consul for the term currently filled by Arnelos.

	20-07-2004 13:13									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

MAN!!!

This is tough!

Here go by almost 72 hours and none besides myself and Aidun (us reluctantly even) step up for the office. I was really saddened by that.

But, now, look at what we have!

I swear I could not think of 3 better candidates to replace Arnelos!

One note about Arnelos: I think he was a great Consul. I wish he were able to be here and conduct the duties that the office requires. This CoC was not done for any other reason than I think the team needs someone who can devote the time and energy into seeing this game succceed.

Good luck to all the candidates. I won't likely vote for a few days on this one! :crazy:

	20-07-2004 13:19									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

MrWIA has been a Consul for this team in the past (and we even have a statue of him, outside the Palace). He has helped this team to get where we are, today. He is fair minded and takes all viewpoints into consideration, before making a decision. He also knows, that a lot of things in this game can rapidly change (even though the game moves slowly) and is able to change direction to do what is best for this team, when those things do happen.

If we decide to Remove Arnelos, WIA is the best choice for his replacement.

MoI E_T

	20-07-2004 13:23									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Beta has my vote. Oh, and the copyright on my Avatar, too.

	20-07-2004 13:37									#5
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I have nominated MrWIA, and stepped up because BigFree was the only one running at the time I nominated myself, but I have retreated in favour of MrWIA.

I trust upon it that MrWIA will be a great consul. He's proven that more than once, more than I can remember. I think that MrWIA can be as dedicated to the team as Arnelos was, perhaps even more.

Therefore MrWIA gets my vote

Aidun

	20-07-2004 13:43									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I would like to hear what the candidates have to say before I vote, because I see three very talented and capable individuals but I have my doubts on each of them:

@ Togas:

I'm not so much disappointed at your absence but rather that you decided to step down from the FAM without telling anyone and just disappearing. Also, it seems to me you are the main man behind the C3C ISDG team, will you have enough time to dedicate to both teams? Other than those two little issues, I think you'd make a fantastic consul and I'm very glad you decided to become active again and not only that but to seek a position that you've wanted before and that in a way, you deserve.

@Beta:

Can we count on you being active? And by that I don't just mean the forums but in the chat where a lot of the decision and suggestion-making process takes place. Also, now that we're at it... PLAY TOURNAMENT #5!!!!!!!

@WIA:

You're here, you're there, you're everywhere. I think nobody here has any doubts about your demo-gamerish experience and you were a great consul before. Buuuut, given that you already did your stint in the executive, why should we choose you AGAIN over the other two folks?


* Master Zen awaits responses....

	20-07-2004 16:40									#7
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Master Zen @Beta: Can we count on you being active? And by that I don't just mean the forums but in the chat where a lot of the decision and suggestion-making process takes place. Also, now that we're at it... PLAY TOURNAMENT #5!!!!!!!

Sent to Arnelos - isn't that ironic - on the 13th at 7:05am.

As to time - yes - I can and will commit time to this game. It is summer. Work has slowed somewhat. My partners father is home from the hospital after his heart attack. And I do not have any big vacations planned.

Although I have not been particularly active in the ISDG, I have kept abreast (Janet Jackson reference there) of events. I know where we are at, and what are strengths and challenges are.

I have been the main 'player' for two other demo game teams : Vox and Monkey. I appreciate that Apolyton in the ISDG is a much larger and more complex civ, but that is just fine by me.

I also recognize the talent that is on the team, actively contributing, and in particular, the efforts of E_T and the other consuls.

That being said, the other candidates are also talented, and have more experience at the 'consul' level for large teams. MWIA in particular deserves a chance at this.

Going to be tough for me to decide.

	20-07-2004 17:06									#8
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: I have kept abreast (Janet Jackson reference there)

God forbid that we ever think "Janet Jackson" in response to "breasts".

	20-07-2004 17:37									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

You can vote for Arn if you like, MZ....

	20-07-2004 21:44									#10
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by E_T MrWIA has been a Consul for this team in the past (and we even have a statue of him, outside the Palace). He has helped this team to get where we are, today. He is fair minded and takes all viewpoints into consideration, before making a decision. He also knows, that a lot of things in this game can rapidly change (even though the game moves slowly) and is able to change direction to do what is best for this team, when those things do happen. If we decide to Remove Arnelos, WIA is the best choice for his replacement. MoI E_T

Good arguments.

	20-07-2004 22:19									#11
	Support Apolyton

why is it that everyone that loses in the C3C IDG consul elections wins in the ISDG?


Is it some kind of booby prize? (no pun intended)


with the other competitors, it seems so...

	20-07-2004 22:26									#12
	Get a bigger avatar today!

WIA, does this mean no to my proposal?

	21-07-2004 01:13									#13
	Remove this text

WIA will do a fine job.

I dropped in and posted at the last minute because I was afraid no one else was going to do so. It seemed to me that someone needed to do the job so I volunteered.

So if WIA can do it, please vote for him.

--Togas

	21-07-2004 01:14									#14
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Krill why is it that everyone that loses in the C3C IDG consul elections wins in the ISDG? Is it some kind of booby prize? (no pun intended) with the other competitors, it seems so...

No. We need WIA here. People apparently considered Togas well in place as well as Octavian. But this game faces a very big challenge. For that we need the most experienced people among leaders. WIA is among them and apparently he is preferred over the othgers, what doesn't tell anything about their capabilities.

Aidun

	21-07-2004 01:24									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

btw, the following was sent via email to CFC today by E_T:

quote: ...Just to let you know, for your & your Forum Info, the e-mail addresses are for our current Consuls Master Zen, Kloreep & MrWhereItsAt

E_T wrote this while we were in the middle of undergoing a replacement poll. MrWIA may be his favorite canidate (as he expressed above), but he has no business telling other teams that WIA is a Consul when we're still trying to determine who will get the job.

I know this has become E_T's team: as he does all the orders, including the military ones, and no one gets to play the save until he feels he's ready, and no questioning of his orders is tolerated ... but can we at least try to act like there still is some democracy left in the Intersite Democracy game??

--Togas

	21-07-2004 01:45									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Sounds like he's just trying to be helpful in getting the game moved along. After all it's not important if I receive the save before the end of the election is it? I'm not going to PLAY it using authority I don't have.

Besides, if I lose we just email and correct the issue.

	21-07-2004 03:00									#17
	Tired of ads?

Double post

Last edited by Aidun on 21-07-2004 at 03:09

	21-07-2004 03:08									#18
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

This whole team has always been one big aristocracy, there is democracy, but to what extend? It has never been much. I've had a quarrel with Vodrack about that. A terrible time, not worth digging up.

But you have a point. It's not neat, yet for efficiency purposes, it may be better to give at last a hint than nothing.

Aidun

	21-07-2004 03:20									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Togas btw, the following was sent via email to CFC today by E_T: E_T wrote this while we were in the middle of undergoing a replacement poll. MrWIA may be his favorite canidate (as he expressed above), but he has no business telling other teams that WIA is a Consul when we're still trying to determine who will get the job.

I agree completly in this regard and am VERY pissed myself. I have unfortunately not been able to post or even lurk at Apolyton these last days, it seems the "server is too busy" every time I want to log in.

I believe it is time now for a major overhaul of our diplomacy and have started a thread on this: http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...threadid=119118 .

I for one, will not tolerate these things happening again.

quote: I know this has become E_T's team: as he does all the orders, including the military ones, and no one gets to play the save until he feels he's ready, and no questioning of his orders is tolerated ... but can we at least try to act like there still is some democracy left in the Intersite Democracy game?? --Togas

And in an about-face, I disagree completely here. I know I constantly question E_T's orders when playing the turn, either to make sense out of questionable decisions and on more than one occassion have overruled him. To say no questioning of his orders is not tolerated is an insult to us, especially since you don't even hang out in the main chat room to know if this is true or not.

As for the military orders, the route of the fleet was decided upon a LONG time ago between E_T and Arnelos. Sadly we have no MoW but it was Arnelos who had coordinated the fleet movements with E_T's builds. The rest of the military orders are not given by E_T either and things like the unit wall weren't even his idea (I began moving some of the units east quite some turns back).

	21-07-2004 03:21									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Togas btw, the following was sent via email to CFC today by E_T: E_T wrote this while we were in the middle of undergoing a replacement poll. MrWIA may be his favorite canidate (as he expressed above), but he has no business telling other teams that WIA is a Consul when we're still trying to determine who will get the job. I know this has become E_T's team: as he does all the orders, including the military ones, and no one gets to play the save until he feels he's ready, and no questioning of his orders is tolerated ... but can we at least try to act like there still is some democracy left in the Intersite Democracy game?? --Togas

Ah, please, wasn;t it you, last night in chat, before the poll was even up, who really didn;t want to take the responibility, in favor of WIA??

And as for the fact that I stated that WIA was a consul, well, that was more a conviensce for me writting the thing than for anything else. What was I to say

Example:

quote: we are currently in the process of removing, as per our consitution, one of our sitting consuls, so because this is such an important chat request, I can't give you the e-mail address of someone who might win the election or not.

If you'll also notice, I did include You in there, even though you have all but verbally resiged from the FAM. I should have included Beta's e-mail address, as he might win. But the thing is, we will be playing our turn soon, and sending if off to CFC.

Has anyone, besides Kloreep, Aidun OR myself (at CFC's Embassy chatroom, where we get mostly ignored), tryed to respond to Zarn's request?? I haven;t seen anything in the appropriate threads.

As for this being MY game, if that was the case, then why haven't I jumped at the chance, over the long span of this game, to become a Consulman. They don;t always listen to me, but you don;t see that in the turn reports (Arnie did sometimes summerize some of the turnchat discussions, at the very first). Yes, I put in too much of my time into this, and YES, It's ruined my life, but don;t go and say that I'm running this game/team, because that is further from the truth.

* E_T will shut up now, before he says something that he will regrete.

I will appoligize to all of the canidates.

E_T

	21-07-2004 03:29									#21
	Support Apolyton

E_T,

I do not see the problem in having simply given me and Kloreep's e-mail and saying the truth: we are in the process of replacing Arnelos and elections are underway and that once they are decided we will send you the addy of the elected consul.

That simple.

Whether it was an honest mistake or done purposely is irrelevant. These things are an insult to our team's democracy especially in times when we are at odds to find a sufficient number of really active players to truly be a team.

Ultimately though, the root of the problem is that we have a non-existant FAM and are the mercy of any member chatting or mailing whatever they want to other teams. This isn't the first time it's happened and probably won't be the last, and while I appreciate people taking the inniciate, I can't help but cringe when these things happen since they would've been easily avoided with a bit of consultation.

	21-07-2004 03:42									#22
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Yes, I should have worded it differently and I again apoligize to everyone, especially the canidates.

and Yes, the FAM is basically non-exsitant and CFC Does want to talk (very likely, before they play their next turn, maybe even before we play ours). The PM from Zarn, showed that they had wanted to talk, as soon as possible. With Cheetah not online as much anymore (who was acting as their lieson between us, especially with the strike planning) AND several other of their members, being on Europe time OR not active anymore, it's hard for us to connect up.

With our Units 1 turn away from the strike and us counting on some help from CFC, even a turn or 2 later, isn;t it vital, IMHO, to get the lines of communication reopened, atleast enough to know what they need to talk about, so that we can go ahead with our plans??

They are our partner, in more than one way and we need to make sure that they know that we are doing as much to get this to work out, as we possibly can.

E_T

	21-07-2004 04:14									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

There is definitely a problem with diplomacy and it needs to be resolved. In the absence of any organized FAM structure, though, I can certainly see why things are beginning to fall apart.

E_T shouldn't have jumped the gun and given them a name; he could have easily just told them an election was going on and we'd tell them who won later. And he had plenty of other contacts to give.

It's a mistake that can be corrected should WIA not win, and won't bare mentioning to them if he doesn't. It is somewhat disrespectful of the election process, but E_T meant no harm.

Not much else to say. I think that this thread is starting to demonstrate the worst of our team and that we should drop it before things get more heated.

	21-07-2004 05:13									#24
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Togas overeacted a bit and E_T made false comments. E_T has apologized (big man for that )and Togas should admit to overeacting a bit.

We need both of theses gentlemen in this game and there's no reason they can't get along since I've seen them get along well for long periods of time before.

Now, let's get this thread back on topic....

Togas has basically said that he wants his supporters to vote for WIA. I had really thought Togas woudl do the best job right now as a Consul. I'm just sorry he's really busy with so many other things; so I understand the way he's thinking. Besides, WIA is no slouch.

As for Beta, I think he's a fine individual. It's just that he hardly ever posts here. He may be a regular lurker/occasional poster but I feel we need someone who gives regular thought AND input into the game as one of our leaders. So, I will be voting for WIA.

Beta, how about a job in the FAM department should you lose this election?

I also wanted, on a side note, to mention that I think Master Zen has been doing a very good job as of late as a Consul and I wanted to personally say thank you for that.

	21-07-2004 08:03									#25
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by BigFree Togas overeacted a bit and E_T made false comments. E_T has apologized (big man for that )and Togas should admit to overeacting a bit. We need both of theses gentlemen in this game and there's no reason they can't get along since I've seen them get along well for long periods of time before. Now, let's get this thread back on topic....

BF - well said. And that is the most diplomatic thing I think you have ever posted.

quote: Togas has basically said that he wants his supporters to vote for WIA. I had really thought Togas woudl do the best job right now as a Consul. I'm just sorry he's really busy with so many other things; so I understand the way he's thinking. Besides, WIA is no slouch. As for Beta, I think he's a fine individual. It's just that he hardly ever posts here. He may be a regular lurker/occasional poster but I feel we need someone who gives regular thought AND input into the game as one of our leaders. So, I will be voting for WIA. Beta, how about a job in the FAM department should you lose this election? I also wanted, on a side note, to mention that I think Master Zen has been doing a very good job as of late as a Consul and I wanted to personally say thank you for that.

I agree regarding MZ.

I agree on your position regarding me as well, BF. You make a good point.

I agree 200% that WB will make a great consul!!

And, I was already thinking about the FAM department. . Great minds think alike.

Beta agrees with all the points in BF's post, and they were thinking the same thing regarding the FAM job. Beta rushes for the phone to call a shrink...

	21-07-2004 12:03									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by BigFree I also wanted, on a side note, to mention that I think Master Zen has been doing a very good job as of late as a Consul and I wanted to personally say thank you for that.

Thank you, and in response I'd like to say I think you've handled the whole CoC issue with nothing short of professionalism.

I still think I can do better but the damn f***ing server here at poly has been curtailing my participation this past week... seems every time I want to log in, I get either mySQL errors or busy messages.

Isn't it great when we can all say nice things about each other? I think I'll shut up now before I start spilling out too much non-homosexual love around here

	21-07-2004 12:07									#27
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Beta BF - well said. And that is the most diplomatic thing I think you have ever posted. I agree regarding MZ. I agree on your position regarding me as well, BF. You make a good point. I agree 200% that WB will make a great consul!! And, I was already thinking about the FAM department. . Great minds think alike. Beta agrees with all the points in BF's post, and they were thinking the same thing regarding the FAM job. Beta rushes for the phone to call a shrink...

While I appreciate your support, I think you mean WIA.

:drunk:

	21-07-2004 15:58									#28
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by WhiteBandit While I appreciate your support, I think you mean WIA.

Um - yup. I did. Guess you were just in my heart as well, WB.

	21-07-2004 19:52									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Thank you for that very good post BigFree, that is the way I like to see us communicating here.

Aidun

	21-07-2004 20:45									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

That's the second very good post by BF this week, then :-)

Maybe we should ask him to be our FAM?