21-07-2004 20:56									#91
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U.S. troops are in South Korea because it benifits both nations. If and when it no longer does (or more likely, after that, when people REALIZE it no longer does) benifit one of us, or both of us, they will go.

Personally, I think we're already there. SK can defend itself, and if it needs help, we can assist via aircover from Japan. But maintaining troops in a country that is increasingly nationalistic and anti-american strikes me as dumb. The troops will just make that trend worse.

-Arrian

	21-07-2004 20:59									#92
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Arrian: The ROK wants the troops there because they will be killed in the opening salvo of a DPRK assault and force US intervention in the conflict. It's the reason they raised so much hell when we moved some troops away from the DMZ.

	21-07-2004 21:01									#93
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I understand the "tripwire" idea. I just don't buy it. I think we would defend them anyway, without a division of ours being wiped out on the first day.

-Arrian

	21-07-2004 21:02									#94
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We're in the process of moving all of our troops from the DMZ and Seoul anyway. The SK is dithering in order to try to stop the move.

Eventually, I think we'll just get exasperated about SK foot dragging and move all of our troops out of there. At least that's what I hope.

	21-07-2004 21:05									#95
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I doubt it but I would like the ROK to resolve the schizoid conflicts thier anti-Americanism seems to force to the forefront at times. "I hate you and view you as a bigger threat than the DPRK! Please don't leave me!"

	21-07-2004 21:10									#96
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It's just the unreality of SK politics that confounds me. How can we base an alliance on such stuff? We have to protect our interests in this situation, because they're schizoid and are going to stay schizoid.

	21-07-2004 21:14									#97
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quote: "I hate you and view you as a bigger threat than the DPRK! Please don't leave me!"

-Arrian

	21-07-2004 21:22									#98
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paiktis is a pretty poor troll, isn't he?

	21-07-2004 21:25									#99
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Yes. I wonder why I can see his posts, though. I don't remember taking him off my ignore list...

-Arrian

	21-07-2004 21:48									#100
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I don't think he's a troll. I think he's just a genuine idiot.

	21-07-2004 22:29									#101
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Hrm, seems like my ignore list just got wiped. I can see PA too. I think I'll leave pattycakes off for now... he can actually be kinda funny.

-Arrian

	21-07-2004 23:12									#102
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quote: Less money would be put into military and more into economic development. Also, there is no sign that a unified Korea wouldn't moderate, just like Vietnam and the PRC.

there are no signs that a unified korea would have moderated, seeing as KIM il-sung held a rather tight grip on power.

all things said, i'm glad there were anti-communist authoritarian leaders in a capitalist, pseudo-democratic south, because the drive they had towards enriching the people through the fat cats with trickle-down economics, while it didn't quite work, led to a middle class which got so thoroughly pissed at being bossed around that their kids protested and rioted until they got what they wanted, and no tanks rolled over them.

	21-07-2004 23:14									#103
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[UR]The Chinese never ran tanks over people either, that's just capitalist lies[/UR]

	21-07-2004 23:19									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker I don't think he's a troll. I think he's just a genuine idiot.

I guess it does not make a whole lot of difference.

	21-07-2004 23:31									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker [UR]The Chinese never ran tanks over people either, that's just capitalist lies[/UR]

You know, maybe there is no spoon?

	21-07-2004 23:32									#106
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quote: It's just the unreality of SK politics that confounds me. How can we base an alliance on such stuff? We have to protect our interests in this situation, because they're schizoid and are going to stay schizoid.

that's what you get in a new, vibrant, growing democracy. let's not kid ourselves--skorean democracy as an actual democracy has only been around since 1992, so...

	21-07-2004 23:33									#107
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ok, fine, no tanks rolled over the students in tian an men.

however, with the skorean students, they no longer have to hide, and they didn't have to flee the country.

	21-07-2004 23:45									#108
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quote: that's what you get in a new, vibrant, growing democracy. let's not kid ourselves--skorean democracy as an actual democracy has only been around since 1992, so...

You give them too much credit. The Central European countries seem to have their heads screwed on pretty straight.

	21-07-2004 23:49									#109
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Oh, meh. People are stupid. Here, there and everywhere. We can either deal with it, or pull out and leave them to figure things out with the North on their own. I say we do it. Either they will recognize their error, or prove us wrong (that sucking up to the North is actually the right policy).

-Arrian

	22-07-2004 00:15									#110
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quote: Originally posted by DanS You give them too much credit. The Central European countries seem to have their heads screwed on pretty straight.

You haven't seen our parliament debating economic policy.

	22-07-2004 00:47									#111
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You haven't seen a Korean parliament "debate" either...

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	22-07-2004 00:48									#113
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.

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	22-07-2004 00:51									#114
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Hey, the parliamentary vote doesn't go your way? No problem. You can always take it out on the ballot box.

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	22-07-2004 00:52									#115
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Literally. Damnit, the people who sit near me probably think I'm nuts (or rather, their suspicions have been confirmed).

-Arrian

	22-07-2004 01:00									#116
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Ok, Dan, you're right

	22-07-2004 02:38									#117
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truth be told, it's not just korea. asian democracies are so much more fun, because there are fistfights in the japanese diet and the taiwanese assembly too.

	22-07-2004 02:39									#118
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And in China, you get to use TANKS to run over political opponents

	22-07-2004 06:53									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed quote: It's just the unreality of SK politics that confounds me. How can we base an alliance on such stuff? We have to protect our interests in this situation, because they're schizoid and are going to stay schizoid. that's what you get in a new, vibrant, growing democracy. let's not kid ourselves--skorean democracy as an actual democracy has only been around since 1992, so...

And as much as Americans complain about their politicians being bought and paid for by politicians, it sometimes seems that virtually all SKorean politicians not only get illegal campaign contributions but blatant kickbacks and bribes. Thankfully the people are really pissed about it so things are starting to change...

quote: truth be told, it's not just korea. asian democracies are so much more fun, because there are fistfights in the japanese diet and the taiwanese assembly too.

Yeah! Makes politics much more fun, bring back the days of canings in the US Senate!