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Kloreep is offline Kloreep

Emperor
of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 21-07-2004 23:08
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A New MoI Department Support Apolyton

With E_T's resignation, we need to put together a new MoI team to replace him. Note the word team; we'll need multiple people working together to fill his shoes.

Please post if you're interested in being part of the new MoI.

GodKing is offline GodKing
Emperor
Detroit
Feb 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 21-07-2004 23:41
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Baa, humbug. You don't need a team. Just don't expect so much. E_T did a great job because of his dedication and the amount of time he had available.

I will be around to help, but have no intention of going back to PtW.

Master Zen is offline Master Zen
Deity
of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:34
  Old Post 22-07-2004 03:33 Visit Master Zen's homepage!
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oh, c'mon, we all know C3C sucks @ss

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 22-07-2004 07:00 Visit Trip's homepage!
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I'd do it if I a) had time and b) could be around for turnchats. As both are impossible, that's a no-go from me.

Master Zen is offline Master Zen
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Jan 2003
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  Old Post 22-07-2004 09:37 Visit Master Zen's homepage!
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You know, I think even if we actually PAID for this job, no-one would take it!

OPD is offline OPD
King
Birmingham UK
Jun 2002
time: 05:34
  Old Post 22-07-2004 21:50
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What you should do is split the empire north and south and have a different person for each half.

Then have one of the consuls oversee things to make sure both are pulling in the same direction.

Also the MoI needs to be properly defined as implementing plans not deciding plans ie. deciding where to build not what to build.

WhiteBandit is offline WhiteBandit
Prince
Southern California
Jul 2002
time: 21:34
  Old Post 22-07-2004 22:08 Visit WhiteBandit's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by OPD
What you should do is split the empire north and south and have a different person for each half.

Then have one of the consuls oversee things to make sure both are pulling in the same direction.

Also the MoI needs to be properly defined as implementing plans not deciding plans ie. deciding where to build not what to build.


That is a most excellent idea!

Hell, we can even herald back to the old SPDG days and also have someone a Minister of Public Works :cough: as well.

That would be 3 new positions right there, but all of them would be fairly small tasks that I think one person could easily accomplish.

So in essence, the MoI Department would now be:
Office of the Northern Interior
Office of the Southern Interior
Office of Public Works

I like the idea. Now is just getting people to step up and fill the positions.

I think the ultimate issue (as brought up by GodKing earlier) is how much micromanaging do we want to do. If we can establish how important certain aspects should be, we might be able to shake some people out of the cracks to fill these spots. Especially if the Consuls aren't looking for very rigid requirements ("just tell us what to build!")

Kloreep is offline Kloreep

Emperor
of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 22-07-2004 22:09
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The workload should definitely be divided. (Once we actually get multiple people to sign up. ) We'll need to look at how to divide our empire up in to provinces.

As for implementation vs. decision: I think the MoI, MoW, and Consuls should hash out how many units are needed and what wonders should be built where. So long as the MoI gets those units out and devotes resources to wonders the team wants, I think they can be given some discretion about what city improvements to build with the rest of our resources.

Master Zen is offline Master Zen
Deity
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Jan 2003
time: 23:34
  Old Post 23-07-2004 00:10 Visit Master Zen's homepage!
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I will say this about micromanaging: our motto has been efficiency all along, and without efficiency, we simply will not win this game and I think we're all here because we feel we have a good shot at winning this.

Nevertheless, we were a bit to picky with micromanaging. During the 4 straight turns I played about a month back I noticed the E_T loved to micromanage workforce so that no city wasted a single shield, yet many times this was done when none of those wasted shields would have benefitted another city. What we can definitely do to ease the burden of workforce management is to allow waste insofar as it does not represent an opportunity cost by another city. So if city A wastes 8 shields, but city B does not require use of those wasted shields, then why bother with changing the WF so that they are not wasted? So, in short, we should coordinate WF with each city's builds and optimize it, but don't get too fastidious over having builds or food coordinate perfectly.

-MZ

Master Zen is offline Master Zen
Deity
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Jan 2003
time: 23:34
  Old Post 23-07-2004 00:18 Visit Master Zen's homepage!
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I also think we should add an Office of Urban Development.

the roles for each would be:

Office of Urban Development - coordinate with MoW/FAM/Consuls on units and improvements needed.

Office of Public Works - organizing workers

Office of Northern Development - workforce management of the north core

Office of Southern Development - workforce management of the south core



thus, the workforce wizards of the OND/OSD will not have to plan on builds since the OUD would do that for them.

So, we need 4 people, volunteers???

Lord Nuclear is offline Lord Nuclear
Duke of Civ3 Hall of Fame

Donate to the Red Cross
and the Apolyton University
Jun 2002
time: 21:34
  Old Post 23-07-2004 00:23
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We keep on creating more positions, but no one is volunteering.

Beta is offline Beta

Deity
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Nov 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 23-07-2004 00:50 Visit Beta<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/lifer-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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I will volunteer for one of the MOI positions if my FAM offer is not what the team wants.

WhiteBandit is offline WhiteBandit
Prince
Southern California
Jul 2002
time: 21:34
  Old Post 23-07-2004 01:56 Visit WhiteBandit's homepage!
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Hell, I'd be willing to even volunteer for Public Works to get the ball rolling.

Beta is offline Beta

Deity
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Nov 2002
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  Old Post 23-07-2004 07:06 Visit Beta<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/lifer-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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OK - so based on the FAM thread - and with Togas staying on - the Bandit and I are the current Ministry of the Interior. Anyone else?

Kloreep is offline Kloreep

Emperor
of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 23-07-2004 08:36
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Due to an undesirably low turnout, I am instituting a new Consular program. The cat will pin you to the ground until you volunteer. (Or it's his nap time; whichever comes first.)

Last edited by Kloreep on 23-07-2004 at 21:51

Master Zen is offline Master Zen
Deity
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Jan 2003
time: 23:34
  Old Post 23-07-2004 11:16 Visit Master Zen's homepage!
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I still have Farb's old GoW hechmen, Guido and Nuncio around... they should be good at "convincing" people to join the MoI

btw, I e-mailed E_T to see if he could send me his sheets and sims, he said he would but hasn't sent them yet. Either way, tomorrow I hope we can set up the orders as best we can.

Beta is offline Beta

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Nov 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 23-07-2004 17:39 Visit Beta<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/lifer-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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MZ - I have been reviewing the save and the economic situation. If you need a hand for this turn - let me know.

My initial observation was the courthouse builds down south. They are all within spitting distance of Apolyton Prime. I presume E_T did his homework - as only he could - and that the investment will pay off. I know I would not have built courthouses that close, but then again - I have not done any detailed calculations.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Aidun is offline Aidun
King
The Hague, the capital of the civilized world
Nov 2002
time: 06:34
  Old Post 23-07-2004 18:06
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No thoughts, but I do have memmories. E_T once asked me and we discussed whether we would build courthouses or barracks. I siad to him that courthouses are only welcome if they would be helpful for the war. Whethere they were was then a bit vague. But In the end I believe he set those cities that do benefit enough from having a courthouse on producing a courthouse and others not. That is but a vague memmory. I think that you can just continue there and build your own policy on E_T's foundations.

Aidun

WhiteBandit is offline WhiteBandit
Prince
Southern California
Jul 2002
time: 21:34
  Old Post 23-07-2004 20:12 Visit WhiteBandit's homepage!
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I will look at worker orders tonight when I get back from work.

Beta is offline Beta

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Nov 2002
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  Old Post 23-07-2004 20:40 Visit Beta<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/lifer-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Aidun
No thoughts, but I do have memmories. E_T once asked me and we discussed whether we would build courthouses or barracks. I siad to him that courthouses are only welcome if they would be helpful for the war. Whethere they were was then a bit vague. But In the end I believe he set those cities that do benefit enough from having a courthouse on producing a courthouse and others not. That is but a vague memmory. I think that you can just continue there and build your own policy on E_T's foundations.

Aidun


Thanks Aidun. I think your last line is a good summary.

Kloreep is offline Kloreep

Emperor
of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 23-07-2004 21:18
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E_T sent his spreadsheet.

Download Here

conmcb25 is offline conmcb25

Emperor
Angmar
Aug 2002
time: 23:34
  Old Post 23-07-2004 23:15 Visit conmcb25<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Beta
MZ - I have been reviewing the save and the economic situation. If you need a hand for this turn - let me know.

My initial observation was the courthouse builds down south. They are all within spitting distance of Apolyton Prime. I presume E_T did his homework - as only he could - and that the investment will pay off. I know I would not have built courthouses that close, but then again - I have not done any detailed calculations.

Anyone have any thoughts?


What are the effects of courthouses in PtW? After we know that, then I think we can go from there.

conmcb25 is offline conmcb25

Emperor
Angmar
Aug 2002
time: 23:34
  Old Post 23-07-2004 23:22 Visit conmcb25<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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I found Axelman's corruption thread for PtW here:Axelmans Corruption Thread for PtW

If I get a chance Ill look at it tonight, no guarentees though, so I posted the link.

E_T is offline E_T
Emperor
Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 24-07-2004 03:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Master Zen
You know, I think even if we actually PAID for this job, no-one would take it!


Hey, I'll take any money that anyone wants to give me, seriously. If they are interested, just PM me and I'll give you my Paypal account, to where you can send money (or baring that, my home address and you can send a money order).

I might need it real soon....

E_T

E_T is offline E_T
Emperor
Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 24-07-2004 04:53
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o.k., the courthouse builds

this was discussed, several pages of threads ago, but let me go into a (ty to be) quick summery.

Our main Production centers are close to the FP and Palace. Because of how Corruption works in PTW, we actually get more in the north than in the south. The South is currently getting itself built up and set up, for as full production as is possible down there. Almost all of the Infrastructure (worker things) is about fully done (atleast until we get RR's). The main task in the south, is to get those cities ready for the GA.

Hmmm, let me tak a different tac

Think of it this way. we have 39 cities (of which, 2 more will be going to CGN soon: Cyrene & Mauritania) but only a small number of those 39 that had good productive capabilities (at this point in time). But they are our Base (foundation), if you will, of our Economy. Built on that base, is the cities that do have the Productive & trade capabilities for what we need. The North is more of the Sheild Production centers (older, already established) compaired to the South, which is still getting ready for it;s Productive spurt (GA and beyond). Also, the south if more Coastal producivity and the north, more land Productivity.

Let me post this and add to it in a little bit.

E_T

E_T is offline E_T
Emperor
Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 24-07-2004 06:12
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O.k., I'll say this, IF I get the help, I'll take up the MoI tasks. for now....


WB, if you want to do the workers, I have no problems with that, BUT, I think that it;s best that I atleast do the next worker orders, while I get with you about what I've got planned for the near to far future. At that point, All I ask is that you let me know, somewhat in advance, as to what your going to be doing. And I'll I'll ask, is that I need such and such done, and it will be up to you, to get it done and to let me know as to when.

We have the 2 worker pumps, finally primed and pumping, but the first few of those workers are going to cities (some with very short tasks before they are added). And we might send CFC some workers as slaves, too, but that is still to be looked at and debated. It might be better, for us to just send the workers over there and do the job for them. But If we do, we should charge them something for their time (something for the FAM to think about).

Beta is offline Beta

Deity
Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 24-07-2004 06:27 Visit Beta<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/lifer-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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E_T ......

Glad you are here.

WhiteBandit is offline WhiteBandit
Prince
Southern California
Jul 2002
time: 21:34
  Old Post 24-07-2004 06:41 Visit WhiteBandit's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by E_T
O.k., I'll say this, IF I get the help, I'll take up the MoI tasks. for now....


WB, if you want to do the workers, I have no problems with that, BUT, I think that it;s best that I atleast do the next worker orders, while I get with you about what I've got planned for the near to far future. At that point, All I ask is that you let me know, somewhat in advance, as to what your going to be doing. And I'll I'll ask, is that I need such and such done, and it will be up to you, to get it done and to let me know as to when.

We have the 2 worker pumps, finally primed and pumping, but the first few of those workers are going to cities (some with very short tasks before they are added). And we might send CFC some workers as slaves, too, but that is still to be looked at and debated. It might be better, for us to just send the workers over there and do the job for them. But If we do, we should charge them something for their time (something for the FAM to think about).


Fine with me my friend.

Just keep me posted as to any ultimate goals you want to do with the workers. (Would be nice to have the jungle completely gone by the time railroads are around).

BigFree is offline BigFree

Emperor
Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:34
  Old Post 24-07-2004 07:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Beta

My initial observation was the courthouse builds down south. They are all within spitting distance of Apolyton Prime. I presume E_T did his homework - as only he could - and that the investment will pay off. I know I would not have built courthouses that close, but then again - I have not done any detailed calculations.

Anyone have any thoughts?


Not that I want to stir things up, but I too do not fully understand why we would need courthouses so close to the FP. I understand wanting them. I understand that they will reduce corruption/waste in those cities but, to what degree?

If a city has a rate of 15% waste/corruption then builds a couthouse which reduces that by a factor of (.25 * .15) which is ~4%. In a city that produces 20 shields or 20 commerce that only saves us 1 shield or 1 commerce for that 80 shield courthouse. It would take 80 turns for the courthouse to pay for it self.

If a city has a rate of 25% waste/corruption then builds a couthouse which reduces that by a factor of (.25 * .25) which is ~6%. In a city that produces 20 shields or 20 commerce that only saves us 1 shield or 1 commerce for that 80 shield courthouse. It would take 80 turns for the courthouse to pay for it self.

If a city has a rate of 35% waste/corruption then builds a couthouse which reduces that by a factor of (.25 * .15) which is ~9%. In a city that produces 20 shields or 20 commerce that only saves us 2 shield or 2 commerce for that 80 shield courthouse. It would take 40 turns for the courthouse to pay for it self. Plus put out 1 extra commerce.

If a city has a rate of 50% waste/corruption then builds a couthouse which reduces that by a factor of (.25 * .50) which is ~13%. In a city that produces 20 shields or 20 commerce that only saves us 3 shields and/or 3 commerce for that 80 shield courthouse. It would take 27 turns for the courthouse to pay for itself. Plus put out 2 extra commerce

If a city has a rate of 80% waste/corruption then builds a couthouse which reduces that by a factor of (.25 * .80) which is ~20%. In a city that produces 20 shields or 20 commerce that only saves us 4 shields and/or 4 commerce for that 80 shield courthouse. It would take 20 turns for the courthouse to pay for itself. Plus put out 3 extra commerce.

If a city has a rate of 95% waste/corruption and then builds a couthouse which reduces that by a factor of (.25 * .95) which is ~24%. In a city that produces 20 shields or 20 commerce that only saves us 5 shields and/or 5 commerce for that 80 shield courthouse. It would take 16 turns for the courthouse to pay for itself. Plus put out 4 extra commerce.

Courhouses, used in conjunction with either WLTKD's or Police Stations are fantastic. But, I do not htink we have enough luxuries to even get WLTKD's in the smallest city that can have one (size 6).

I am more than open to listen to the argument for courthouses near either of our cores. With out a huge sprawling Civ in our South, I don't see the need for them.

E_T is offline E_T
Emperor
Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 24-07-2004 08:07
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From the post palace move economic report here

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=113052

Palace Centric:

code:
Rank 0 - Apolyton Prime - 4.01% Rank 1 - Arcadia - 8.58% Rank 2 - Area X - 13.06% Solace - 13.06% Lakeview - 13.06% Rank 5 - Power of Victory - 22.82% Zenophobia - 22.82% Rank 7 - Hero’s Summit - 29.31% Rank 8 - Eisten Boulen - 33.29% Rank 9 - Silk Road - 38.44% Rank 10 - Down Under - 42.84%


FP Centric (ranks are determined by Palace Centric Cities):
code:
Rank 0 - Karina - 4.01% Rank 1 - Lux - 6.70% Big Bend - 8.58% Rank 2 - Mingapulco - 13.06% Heart of Darkness - 13.06% Chiquita - 13.06% Rank 5 - Bananatopia (CH) - 16.37% Dominus - 22.82% Rank 7 - Tripoli (CH) - 20.71% Hispanica (CH) - 20.71% Kanaola - 29.55% Eye - 29.55% Rank 9 - BigFurryCity (CH) - 26.70% Antlergrad - 38.44% Lumentis Bananais - 38.44% Rank 10 - Incensity (CH) - 33.35% Del Monte - 45.48% Euclidium Novem - 45.48% Lumen Musae - 45.48% Protuberance - 45.48% Vox Publica - 47.37% Memoria Fraxia - 47.37% Equilibruim - ~50% (to be abandoned) Mongoose Abyss - 56.74%


At the time that I had written this, we were still building new cities and lakeview hadn;t been moved yet. SO....

Palace Centric:
code:
Rank 0 - Apolyton Prime - 4.01% Rank 1 - Arcadia - 8.58% Rank 2 - Area X - 13.06% Solace - 13.06% Rank 4 - Power of Victory - 20.01% Zenophobia - 20.01% Lakeview - 20.01% Freedom City - 20.01% Rank 8 - Hero’s Summit - 31.98% (22.61% with Court) Rank 9 - Eisten Boulen - 37.07% (26.70% with Court) Rank 10 - Silk Road - 40.99% (28.59% with Court) Thunder Bay - 40.99% (28.59% with Court) Rank 12 - Down Under - 48.96% (35.21% with Court)


So, with courthouses in the Rank 8 and higher, we get an overall [EDIT] see post below 70.8% 29.2% Average [/edit] increase in Productivity in those cities. Currently, the Rank 4 Cities (and lower) wouldn;t get any Courthouses UNTIL after they have Banks, Universities & possibly Factories built in them, to get the most for the little bit of improvement that courthouses would have in them.

Rank 4 would be 14.29%, Rank 2 would be 8.12% and Rank 1 would be 6.12%. Another thing about the Rank 4 cities, in the Palace Centric area, is that they also don;t have much in the way of real SPT (except for PoV). Zeno is a Worker Pump, so it;s not getting much bigger, Lakeview needs to get to size 7 or higher before it does much and Freedom City is size limited until RR's.

Also, AP would be at 2.02%, so it will wait to get it;s courthouse, for a long time.

FP Centric (ranks are determined by Palace Centric Cities):
code:
Rank 0 - Karina - 4.01% Rank 1 - Lux - 6.70% (to be abandoned) Big Bend - 8.58% Rank 2 - Mingapulco - 13.06% Heart of Darkness - 13.06% Chiquita - 13.06% Rank 4 - Bananatopia (CH) - 14.29% Dominus - 20.01% Rank 8 - Tripoli (CH) - 22.61% Hispanica (CH) - 22.61% Kanaola - 30.98% Eye - 30.98% Rank 10 - BigFurryCity (CH) - 28.54% Antlergrad - 41.11% Lumentis Bananais - 41.11% Rank 12 - Incensity (CH) - 35.36% Del Monte - 48.86% Euclidium Novem - 48.86% Lumen Musae - 48.86% Protuberance - 48.86% Mu - 48.86% Vox Publica - 52.64% (37.23% with Courthouse) Memoria Fraxia - 52.64% (37.23% with Courthouse) Mongoose Abyss - 61.57% (43.54% with Courthouse)


I'll post more soon

E_T

Last edited by E_T on 24-07-2004 at 12:08

 
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