01-08-2004 22:52									#451
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Yeah it was. She used the tired old line, "I should be able to voice my opinion and not be considered a b1tch the same way men can." That implies that men like guys who are *******s. If you're an *******, you're an *******, just because you are a guy you don't get any special privileges. It implies that men are out oppressing women because of their opinions. Which isn't the case.

That's not what she said. She didn't say that no one likes *****, but they like ********. She said women who voice their opinions are unfairly considered *****es.

	01-08-2004 22:54									#452
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious She said women who voice their opinions are unfairly considered *****es.

And WHO exactly are the people unfairly considering them *****es? Other women?

The point is, nobody likes b1tches or azzholes. Gender has nothing to do with it. It's a tired old line that is misleading and untrue.

	01-08-2004 22:59									#453
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker And WHO exactly are the people unfairly considering them *****es? Other women? The point is, nobody likes b1tches or azzholes. Gender has nothing to do with it. It's a tired old line that is misleading and untrue.

Ted,

All you are doing is what she is accusing people of. You're saying that women who voice their opinion are *****es. Men who voice their opinion are not considered this way.

And yes, some women are the most guilty of this, but what does that matter.

	01-08-2004 23:06									#454
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No, you are setting up a strawman, and a poor argument at that

Women are free to express their opinions, duh, it's a free country

The point is with that line of thinking goes, if the guy says something that is considered arrogant or belligerent, he is considered a stud and people like him. If the woman says the same thing, she's a b1tch. That's such BS. If they say the same things that piss people off, people will see them both the same.

I don't know anybody that considers a woman a b1tch just because she speaks her mind. If she says something belligerent than she doesn't get a free pass just because she's a woman.

	01-08-2004 23:10									#455
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker No, you are setting up a strawman, and a poor argument at that Women are free to express their opinions, duh, it's a free country The point is with that line of thinking goes, if the guy says something that is considered arrogant or belligerent, he is considered a stud and people like him. If the woman says the same thing, she's a b1tch. That's such BS. If they say the same things that piss people off, people will see them both the same. I don't know anybody that considers a woman a b1tch just because she speaks her mind. If she says something belligerent than she doesn't get a free pass just because she's a woman.

I think women know much better than you Ted.

	01-08-2004 23:11									#456
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So how does that favor your argument since you're not a woman? (Unless you are one).

	01-08-2004 23:11									#457
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I disagree. If a guy comes arrogant, he's nothing but a punk. At least in my eyes he is.

	01-08-2004 23:12									#458
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SuperCitizen, exactly

	01-08-2004 23:15									#459
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker So how does that favor your argument since you're not a woman? (Unless you are one).

No. I'm a man, but I believe I have more empathy for people different from me than you do. And more importantly, I know myself.

And by the way arrogant is not the same as speaking your mind. If you would just look closely at your own argument you might see something revealing about yourself.

	01-08-2004 23:19									#460
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Yeah, right, so now you are claiming the moral high ground and a superior self-awareness above someone you have never met as to why you are correct.

I am glad your amatuer psychological analysis is involved.

And by the way you are assuming that all women buy into that line.

	01-08-2004 23:26									#461
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Yeah, right, so now you are claiming the moral high ground and a superior self-awareness above someone you have never met as to why you are correct.

Why do I have to meet you in person. I can tell a lot about you by your posts.

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I am glad your amatuer psychological analysis is involved.

You don't have to be a psychologist to recognize sexism.

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker And by the way you are assuming that all women buy into that line.

Nope. Many women don't want to be considered *****es, or they have been raised to not have their own opinions.

	01-08-2004 23:34									#462
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Why do I have to meet you in person. I can tell a lot about you by your posts. You don't have to be a psychologist to recognize sexism.

Or maybe you are doing alot of projecting.

quote: Nope. Many women don't want to be considered *****es, or they have been raised to not have their own opinions.

Yeah right, you keep going around and around. The most successful people I know, women AND men, have a gift of expressing their opinions without pissing people off.

My Aunt has the best social skills I have ever seen. Everybody that meets her loves her. She has the entire city she lives in networked and has an army of people she can call upon for favors. She certainly speaks her opinion, and nobody even remotely thinks she's a b1tch, in fact just the opposite is the case. The line about her goes, "she will tell you to go to hell and you will thank her for it."

	01-08-2004 23:40									#463
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Yeah right, you keep going around and around. The most successful people I know, women AND men, have a gift of expressing their opinions without pissing people off.

Of course they are successfull if they don't say anything that pisses people off. Christ, are you paying attention to what you are writting. We aren't talking about saying things that everyone agrees with. We're talking about saying things that people don't agree with. Men are respected for this, while women generally aren't.

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker The line about her goes, "she will tell you to go to hell and you will thank her for it."

People may say that, but are those the people who she told to go to hell. I doubt that.

	01-08-2004 23:49									#464
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Men are respected for this, while women generally aren't.

Which is an incorrect assumption on your part. Of all the bosses I've worked for, it's been about 50/50 in terms of male/female ratio. I've been lucky to have great bosses but I can say the biggest pr1cks were all men. Why were they pr1cks? Not by their treatment or job performance but the things that they said. I don't ever remember respecting them for it and if fact despised them for being dumbasses, with the agreement of my coworkers.

There was one woman who was a pr1cks but she was the exception. And I don't recall any of them being scared to "express their opinon."

quote: People may say that, but are those the people who she told to go to hell. I doubt that.

Well you are wrong.



By the way I enjoy your personal attacks. Even though they are ineffective, they are highly amusing.

Why don't you have any empathy for me?

	01-08-2004 23:57									#465
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker By the way I enjoy your personal attacks. Even though they are ineffective, they are highly amusing. Why don't you have any empathy for me?

I'm not attaking you. I don't naturally have a lot of empathy for people, but my understanding of people has improved over time. We aren't born into the world wanting to believe that people aren't treated fairly. White males have the most difficulty accepting this, because they are the accused.

	02-08-2004 00:03									#466
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Yeah but subscribing to a blanket philosophy that men are out to subvert women is not good.

	02-08-2004 00:05									#467
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Yeah but subscribing to a blanket philosophy that men are out to subvert women is not good.

Why not, it's the truth.

	02-08-2004 00:07									#468
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Oh you can't draw a conclusion, well I guess you can and most would, but a conclusion that would be a fact, that Ted Striker would be sexist. If that was the case, then I'd be sexist, racist, homophobe, anti-semite, xenophobic piece of sexy beast. But I'm not. It's just all good and fun. If you say he's sexist because he'd hit all the women in the world wide web, hey, it's not sexist. It's love. Ted is a lover. Loves all women.

	02-08-2004 00:09									#469
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Oh you can't draw a conclusion, well I guess you can and most would, but a conclusion that would be a fact, that Ted Striker would be sexist. If that was the case, then I'd be sexist, racist, homophobe, anti-semite, xenophobic piece of sexy beast. But I'm not. It's just all good and fun. If you say he's sexist because he'd hit all the women in the world wide web, hey, it's not sexist. It's love. Ted is a lover. Loves all women.

	02-08-2004 00:09									#470
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Why not, it's the truth.

You are saying that all men are out to oppress women?????????

	02-08-2004 00:10									#471
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka If you say he's sexist because he'd hit all the women in the world wide web, hey, it's not sexist. It's love. Ted is a lover. Loves all women.

Ted loves women.

	02-08-2004 00:12									#472
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I prove that point wrong. I don't oppress women. I don't even care about women right now. Right now, I don't need a woman. I can satisfy myself thank you very much and it would take a goddess to do it better than I do it to me. I don't need women right now. I just don't care about women at this moment. So hardly do I oppress them either. They can have their clubs, they can have their 'we hate Pekka because he don't want me' hating clubs I don't care. Let them do that. I don't oppress women. So your truth is not the truth.

	02-08-2004 00:12									#473
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker You are saying that all men are out to oppress women?????????

Some of them it's not intentional. But the're wired that way. That's why we have to have an understanding of ourselves foremost.

	02-08-2004 00:17									#474
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That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

	02-08-2004 00:19									#475
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We are wired to hit it. That's it. This subversion crap is baloney.

What exactly have you been reading to give this wack idea?

	02-08-2004 00:25									#476
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No, we're wired to oppress ourselves. Women, they're the puppet masters. YOu look at a woman, they think you're thinking a woman as an object. Then you don't look at her, and they think you just like model women, and again you're sexist. No matter what you do, you're a sexist. That's all women talk. They want you to feel guilty, so they can get what they want. Your credit card. And see you squirm.

Now in the past, men have oppressed women. These modern days, it's the other way around. And then there are men who think we still oppress women and that we are bastards for it. It's not true. You say, well, they don't have the same salaries for the same job. Right. And I know employers who only hire women, not because the job demands a woman, but because she don't want to hire no man. I'm not kidding either. She was proud too. Listen a man who says 'I only hire man, and I'm damn proud, kick those women out of my place!' and see the riot police coming in. It's not about equality. WOmen think they're superior. We just thinkg we're stronger. Physically. That's what we got. What they got is strings to master us. Boss you around.

Women are always the victims. Always. Prossies, well they're oppressed by their evil pimp, who just happens to be a man. And by his customers, who are also men. Prossie is the only victim. No man can be a victim in sex things. No man can be a victim of anything violent or oppressing in domestic surroundings. Who gets the kids always in courts, you can be drunk, you can be giving your groove to every man in the block, and you still get the kid and the man no matter how good he is gets the boot and see you in 18 years, MAYBE!

No one looks out for men. Women complain, men oppress them. We treat them as sexual objects. We value them only by their appearances. Not true. Show me a man who appreciates his mother on her body. Or grandmother. Or sister. Have you ever heard a woman get in trouble for oogling mens butts? They do that you know, they rate us even harder than we do. They are laughing at us, pointing us, rating us, hating us, and that's ok. But just wait the moment when you even look for a second of a woman, in the places her face isn't. YOu're a pig, and prolly a serial masturbator. You're oppressor.

We judge them by their appearances.. Bah.. and they say men can get fat and no one judges them like they do women... Oh really? Do women often get their asses kicked by group of young men because they were fat? Besides, women can lose weight, they have their support groups.. do you know many support groups for men? There might be few, but you can't go there if you're a man.

It's just BS, that's what it is. And now self conscious self haters go 'uu there goes a womaniser! A sex creep!'. Wrong. I just said what needed to be said. Yes I said it, someone had to said it so I said it!

	02-08-2004 06:02									#477
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Didn't read this thread (well most of it) since Thursday, but to Kerry's speech. I REALLY liked it. It was a very well delievered speech with some nice policy soundbites for him.

	02-08-2004 06:32									#478
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What specifically did you like Imran?

Just curious because I missed the whole thing.

	02-08-2004 06:55									#479
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker We are wired to hit it. That's it. This subversion crap is baloney.

Since all you care about is hitting it, and that's it, why should we believe that you are concerned with treating others as equals.

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker What exactly have you been reading to give this wack idea?

Your posts.

	02-08-2004 09:40									#480
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quote: What specifically did you like Imran?

First, it was good stylistically. Kerry didn't look wooden like we were warned. He looked comfortable up there and sometimes even passionate.

Second, I liked how his optimism (ie, "This admin says we are doing the best we can; I don't think we can ever say that America can't do better"). I like a President who thinks the best times are ahead.

Third, giving the mid class more tax relief and using a raise on the rates for the top 1% to pay for it is, IMO, a good idea.

There were probably other things but I can't recall them all right now.