29-07-2004 02:06									#1
	Shall we make this a new CTP PBEM LADDER rule? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Shall we make this a new CTP PBEM LADDER rule? That is:

Proposed Rule: Once a CTP PBEM Challenge Match is agreed upon by both players, then any absence from the game for over two weeks will result in a win for the present player and a loss for the absent player. This rule to take effect from this point forward, (i.e. this rule is not retroactive.)

	29-07-2004 03:45									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Sounds great 2 me..(Hey I helped sponsor it!!)

Peace

Gramps

	29-07-2004 07:25									#3
	Increase Your PM Length

Is there a clause for scheduled absence?

I.E. I'm going on a three week vacation!!

	29-07-2004 07:29									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by checkMate Is there a clause for scheduled absence? I.E. I'm going on a three week vacation!!

Yes..when you "announce" thats not what we are talking 'bout

We b talking about those "GHOSTS" of Aployton CTP PBEM that come in and go away...

	29-07-2004 07:35									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll Yes..when you "announce" thats not what we are talking 'bout We b talking about those "GHOSTS" of Aployton CTP PBEM that come in and go away...

Ok then, so let it be done.

	29-07-2004 07:38									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

I think there should be a grace period after an announcement by email and on the thread that forfeture is pending.

	29-07-2004 07:44									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by checkMate I think there should be a grace period after an announcement by email and on the thread that forfeture is pending.

Absolutely NOT!!

THIS is the notice and will be in the rulz..

WHY?

Because then we get into the..
Maybe he is having connection problems?

or

Maybe he is just have PC Problems

or whatever,,then 2 weeks turns into a month turns into 2 months and

Hey, anyone seen Nic-da-newbie?

Nope..
I say this is the notice

This is the only "action" we need take!!

	29-07-2004 17:15									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by checkMate I think there should be a grace period after an announcement by email and on the thread that forfeture is pending.

I second this as also the new rule .

	29-07-2004 17:20									#9
	Inflate your Upload Space

How about just like this. Quinns (or who ever is the official ax man) sends an email and post to the thread.
"xxx will be forfeited on xx/xx/xx date if they don't play a turn in game xxx."

The date is say three or five days after the post.

I think this prevents an opposite type of abuse, where
somebody tries to get somebody forfeited without doing there part to notify the guy first.

Sometimes I have left games unplayed for more than two weeks just becuase one of us forgot to post the turn and I forgot about the game. That happens a fair amount actually. It takes pretty good diligence to keep a game going even when both players are willing.

	29-07-2004 17:23									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Pave I second this as also the new rule .

liberals

Ok..how long?

I mean..for real..we are saying 2 weeks..thats why we are trying to get this going because of the frickin back up in turns in a lot of games..

How long should we wait?

Ok.

Today is Thursday..player "A" doesnt do his turn as he should (24 H rule) do you send the email out now? or wait for 2 weeks to pass?

THEN do you send the email warning and THEN How long do you give to respond?


I mean its like having a law..NOW we have attorneys aying "I Know my client didnt do this or that but lets just give them a leetle more time.."

hmm..now we have a debate!!

	29-07-2004 17:27									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by checkMate How about just like this. Quinns (or who ever is the official ax man) sends an email and post to the thread. "xxx will be forfeited on xx/xx/xx date if they don't play a turn in game xxx." The date is say three or five days after the post. I think this prevents an opposite type of abuse, where somebody tries to get somebody forfeited without doing there part to notify the guy first. Sometimes I have left games unplayed for more than two weeks just becuase one of us forgot to post the turn and I forgot about the game. That happens a fair amount actually. It takes pretty good diligence to keep a game going even when both players are willing.

What if the email doesnt get a response?

How will we know the person is actually checking their email?

I mean if they arent playing their turns then they may not be checking their emails?

Just asking.........................

	29-07-2004 17:47									#12
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll What if the email doesnt get a response? How will we know the person is actually checking their email? I mean if they arent playing their turns then they may not be checking their emails? Just asking.........................

Then we should coldly remove him from the Challenge Ladder. Own fault, why didn't they look at their e-mails.

	29-07-2004 17:50									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The announcement is enough, we are not trying to determine their intentions. Even if their house burned down, their dog ate their modem, and they forgot their email password, they get forfieted if the (to yet be specified) number of days expires.

The only purpose of the announcement is to give an official attempt to get a hold of them.

	29-07-2004 18:18									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by checkMate The announcement is enough, we are not trying to determine their intentions. Even if their house burned down, their dog ate their modem, and they forgot their email password, they get forfieted if the (to yet be specified) number of days expires. The only purpose of the announcement is to give an official attempt to get a hold of them.

Ok

So..AGAIN I ASK at what point do we send the email?

after 24h? (Which is standard rule)

After the two weeks?

Just asking because after 2 weeks THEN we allow another 5 days it becomes

THREE WEEKS!!

Thx

Gramps

	29-07-2004 20:14									#15
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: How will we know the person is actually checking their email?

In outlook express create the mail, go to tools and chose request read receipt. This will send an email to you telling if the person has opened the mail for reading.

I assume this rule would only apply to games that have started not games simply agreed to play?

Should always have a grace time cuz some people end up in the hospital and or out of town on business for a few weeks at a time.

	29-07-2004 21:05									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I agree with Grandpa Troll. I believe the rule should stand as is without any more announcements or emails. I, for one, don't want to administer when I sent such and such a notice to whom and keep track of whether or not they responded. Notice on this thread is plenty sufficient (I'm trying to minimize and simplify this process). If they don't follow this thread at least once every two weeks, then they aren't really interested in the ladder anyway and should be forfeited if they are inactive in their challenge game. To act in a way that Checkmate describes would be an abuse of the Ladder and would result in expulsion from the ladder if proven beyond a reasonable doubt. [It's just a game ]

	29-07-2004 21:20									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by blackice I assume this rule would only apply to games that have started not games simply agreed to play? Should always have a grace time cuz some people end up in the hospital and or out of town on business for a few weeks at a time.

Once the match is agreed upon by BOTH players, it starts. Otherwise we begin to split hairs over EXACTLY when the game starts... Is it when turn 0 is sent, or is is it when the player replies to turn 0. Or maybe, "I replied to the turn 0 but you never got it therefore the match never started".

In these rare hospital/business-like cases, the player may appeal to this thread after the ruling is made.

	30-07-2004 00:58									#18
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by quinns Once the match is agreed upon by BOTH players, it starts. Otherwise we begin to split hairs over EXACTLY when the game starts... Is it when turn 0 is sent, or is is it when the player replies to turn 0. Or maybe, "I replied to the turn 0 but you never got it therefore the match never started". In these rare hospital/business-like cases, the player may appeal to this thread after the ruling is made.

No problems i aint heartless..just trying to get rid of the ..umm riff raff..

	30-07-2004 00:59									#19
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by blackice In outlook express create the mail, go to tools and chose request read receipt. This will send an email to you telling if the person has opened the mail for reading. I assume this rule would only apply to games that have started not games simply agreed to play? Should always have a grace time cuz some people end up in the hospital and or out of town on business for a few weeks at a time.

But all you have to do is "DENY" a recepit request and the other person wont get one!

kinda sux but at work I..um..often do this very thingey

	30-07-2004 01:24									#20
	Support Apolyton

i think there should be

a) a reminder sent
b) real inactiveness of the player. meaning he didnt say he would be away AND doesnt respond to the reminder
c) 2 - 4 weeks from warning to actual game loss. after all, thats probably how long it would have taken anyway to kick that coward's ass.

	30-07-2004 01:42									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician i think there should be a) a reminder sent b) real inactiveness of the player. meaning he didnt say he would be away AND doesnt respond to the reminder c) 2 - 4 weeks from warning to actual game loss. after all, thats probably how long it would have taken anyway to kick that coward's ass.

No No No!!

Lets start here and say 2 weeks..with no communication..man whats wrong with you guys..

I cant stand it when I go 2 days let alone two frickin weeks!!

WHY WHY must we have 2 weeks then a reminder then wait on a reminder?

what the fricking purpose of the 24 hours rule if it has no teeth?

I dunno..Im gonna have to appeal this..
wait Ill ask a cop

He sez 48 hours then send a notice then give a week..that makes it 10 days..

THIS I LIKEY!!

	30-07-2004 01:55									#22
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll No No No!! Lets start here and say 2 weeks..with no communication..man whats wrong with you guys..

umm. okay, i'll try to explain...

quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll I cant stand it when I go 2 days let alone two frickin weeks!!

understood. but this rule aint for your pleasure alone.

quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll WHY WHY must we have 2 weeks then a reminder then wait on a reminder?

that was exaggerated, wasnt it ?

quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll what the fricking purpose of the 24 hours rule if it has no teeth?

hmm. basically, we got no 24h rule on the ladder, do we ?

quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll He sez 48 hours then send a notice then give a week..that makes it 10 days.. THIS I LIKEY!!

from what time on ?
first of all someone has to notice that someone else is absent. i dont want everyone to cry out "my game !" if he doesnt get a turn within 48 hours. nor do i want a deadline after 48 hours of not sending a turn.

	30-07-2004 02:32									#23
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician umm. okay, i'll try to explain... understood. but this rule aint for your pleasure alone. that was exaggerated, wasnt it ? hmm. basically, we got no 24h rule on the ladder, do we ? from what time on ? first of all someone has to notice that someone else is absent. i dont want everyone to cry out "my game !" if he doesnt get a turn within 48 hours. nor do i want a deadline after 48 hours of not sending a turn.

Ok u r explaining

I am too

No it aint fer my pleasure..I am here because i have to be

BUT it doesnt mean that I want competition and not being stagnant..

as for the "exxagerated" and no aI ant gonna go back and look but some fine poster wanted us to email a note and wait for that and then have a period for them to respond..

I dun think i wuz X-Ag-eratin

I thought and guess I wuz wrong but thought (which people do from time 2 time here that we had a 24 hour rule..maybe that was in Fantasia : The CTP Game?

Ya know I am not trying to be a weinie but more make it so when a person comes in they dont hold up the game..

a few months ago I was asked to sub and MAN! it was after like 2 months I got a reply..*BUMP* was more like it of a game that had been going on for years..YEARS!!


Thats why I prefer a small crowd playing

Math...If you want to have a game setting out there for months on end fine i dont

I just think we should have a set of rulz..is all

	30-07-2004 06:15									#24
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

It was my understanding this was an issue for games in progress. I mean a dude accepts a challenge and never starts a game or you do not hear from them again what is the big deal? No loss move on.

Now if someone starts a game and then while the game is being passed back and forth drops from site, sight. Well that is a waste of time and ya give the win.

What if they lose thier internet and have no way to make contact? I can think of many reasons people are not online. I think one has to be not so uptight about a "game". Grab a new one and wait for your "win" to show up... really means squat the way it is set up any way, right?

Again to me this rule is good if someone starts a game plays it then disapears. But for newbies they do that so ya you would get the win, but for just agreeing and then not playing what's the beef man, we have a rule for that one.

	30-07-2004 06:23									#25
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by blackice It was my understanding this was an issue for games in progress. I mean a dude accepts a challenge and never starts a game or you do not hear from them again what is the big deal? No loss move on. Now if someone starts a game and then while the game is being passed back and forth drops from site, sight. Well that is a waste of time and ya give the win. What if they lose thier internet and have no way to make contact? I can think of many reasons people are not online. I think one has to be not so uptight about a "game". Grab a new one and wait for your "win" to show up... really means squat the way it is set up any way, right? Again to me this rule is good if someone starts a game plays it then disapears. But for newbies they do that so ya you would get the win, but for just agreeing and then not playing what's the beef man, we have a rule for that one.

I couldnt agree more Oh Great Blackice

Once again your wisdom succeeds your fricking yourth!!

Seriously i am strictly speaking about new games not past games and for those just abandoning

I mean i aint involved in others so I could really care less if someone has a game for a couple years going...waiting..on..turn..91...to build that Bank..

Cheers

Gramps

	30-07-2004 08:26									#26
	Increase Your PM Length

I really am confused about what is the big deal about the notice.

After two weeks the waiting players asks the ax man to ax his the man (the man that ain't around that is). The ax man posts an email plus a note on this thread. Watch it dude or you get the ax.

Five days later the waiting player reminds the ax man to ax the man.

Head rolls.

Simple.

One big reason you need that rule is that the ax man has no way to know that you even contacted the player to see if they got your last turn. If I don't get a turn in a game, I may not notice for some time. But eventually I do notice. And I always notice when somebody says Heh where is the turn? Now if quinns sends me an email that says hey, the ax is comin. I'm gonna get my ax in gear. But, if I'm truly a slacker, you won't here from me.

	30-07-2004 13:12									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I will vote "yes" for the new rule - but as checkMate, I think we need to give the "other guy" a lillte kind kick before the ax is used.

As E-mails might be lost for some reason, I propose we use the Apolyton Private Message feature - with or without a copy to Quinns (or me or.... who ever) giving the other xx hours/days/weeks..... what-ever agreed upon when the game starts.

	30-07-2004 13:53									#28
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

ok, you guys figure that out and give me a comprehensible description of the result!

	30-07-2004 14:08									#29
	Inflate your Upload Space

*double posted*