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asleepathewheel
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listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:33
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should that island come into the discussion?
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:33
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quote:
Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt
Honesty. As GodKing says, but tell them we hope to be able to come to an approximately equal division of nice land between the two of us, and hopefully resources and lux as well. IF they have suggestions, we're all ears, but it would probably be best to only firmly decide when we both have most/all of the map of our landmass.
And con - you could change your sig to
"Days since last Arnelos sighting 12" like they do with hurricanes in little central US states. |
A few things...
I agree that the way to approach it is a division of land that will see both teams happy, BUT consider...
These are the biggest group of competitive, in your face with a SoD players you are ever gonna find. We all build well. And we talk nice. They carve each other up for dinner on a nightly basis.
Their psychology will be to expand towards other civs, EVEN ALLIES, to get the better position for themselves. To ask them not to is to ask them to forget their nature and the cardinal rules of MP which they, each and everyone, know so well. To insist they stop where they are, but please sent your SoD to help rid us of our problem is to risk fracturing the relationship. You might ask, but don't be surprised by the response, and be prepared to grant their progress to the South, quite a ways. That's the downside.
The upside is that they are also very used to playing teams against other teams. You prolly couldn't find another team who is so well conditioned to the concept of joining together to knock everyone elses' heads. That is the real upside. We need only knock off a couple of other civs, and then the next game can proceed. The trick is to get big enough that their trying to use their superior start against us risks they themselves not finishing this game. Get us both pushing in the direction of finding and eliminating other civs. They are conditioned to look at things that way. They play teams. That is in their nature. I doubt the back stab is, so much.
Be fair. recognise the relative strengths of the positions (theirs is great). Be prepared to pledge our swords to defeat any they perceive as enemies so long as they do the same for us. Give them no reason to doubt our loyalty. That could well see us cooperating to the point of the elimination of other teams beyond CDG, and not intent on the elimination of each other.
Oh, one other thing. Never put our jugular in the way of their teeth. They may play teams nice, but they aren't stupid. Saying go ahead and settle as far south as you want would be being too weak. It is a very delicate situation. They will want to come south. Their reflexes, instinct, and intelligent players will be telling them to. They also know we are here and this is where we live. Be very artful. Slow them with reason, but do not deny their nature. Find the common ground that will stay their steady southward progress, but be prepared to live with some.
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Togas
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California
Jun 2002
time: 21:33
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Some points to consider:
We may not even settle half of the land that we "get" after settling our borders. This game is an elimination game. Once two civs are out, we stop it and move on.
Even if we both get exactly half of the "good" land, they are going to fill theirs before we fill ours.
If we get extra land, but are forced to spend more resources defending and developing it, is it really worth it in such a short game?
Personally, I'd like to see us just split it up now and if PAL gets a bit extra, so what. I'd prefer to chop it at a narrow point that's easy to defend and watch, and I'd prefer to get it out of the way before PAL starts sending combat settlers south to deal with CDG. It's going to be hard to nicely ask them to gift us those cities if they were built before a border, and when we're drawing up borders we could say that city placement is meaningless, but you know that they will try to keep their cities on their side of the border, as they spent resources on them.
Lastly, realism. We really can't draw a border much further north than we have in the images in this thread. Doing so would seize some of their cities in the core of their empire. They wouldn't do that and asking would be extremely callous of us. Where can we draw a realistic border? It's got to be that peninsula between the two large land masses. Let's draw it now and be done with it. If they really do have more tiles over there and more resources, then what? What are we realisticly going to do about it in our negotiations that will make sense to both teams?
--Togas
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MrWhereItsAt
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New Year's Resolution: 2005 is the year of Where It's At - come get some.
Nov 2001
time: 17:33
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
Incidently, F-P is used to watching Apolyton use sweet words with 'allies' while preparing the knives. Don't even try a loophole. Stay as genuine and honest as you can possibly be. We may want to team with them. They may with us, but they will be looking for signs of deceit. Don't show them any. |
And this is EXACTLY why I advocate being honest and open with them. Not announcing any secrets, but just keeping the lines of communication open and straight. Tricks can be figured out - it has happened time and again, and once for every time such a thing has worked for us.
Togas, that's a good point about not using all the land open to us, BUT we may well need to invade another continent, something that is tedious and will possibly not happen for a very long time. In that time we need to maintain enough strength to keep PAL with us and not ON us, as well as furthering tech progression enough to collectively outmuscle one of the other continents' civs. We may be building for a time yet, and the land could well be needed. Also, we should put some effort into finding where between us and PAL the corruption becomes better for one civ to have than the other, and we can make a case for making the most out of the tiles by carving up land based on how to get the most out of it for the collective purpose. That should sound a fair suggestion, and I hardly think there are too many places that PAL would object to us having if they are going to be economically useless to them.
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04-08-2004 02:22
)
to all points.
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