01-08-2004 01:16									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I don't like the idea of having dynasties of landed gentry owning most of the country's wealth. It's much healthier for a society not to have that.

part of my point

	01-08-2004 02:49									#92
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It's allright Che. Being a Communist, we'll give you a pass on the intricacies of finance.

	01-08-2004 03:41									#93
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I haven't seen one common sense post on the topic in this thread.

We have estate taxes because the chance to make more money than everyone else is an incentive. Having idle rich people who live off inheritances means that more resources are being consumed by people who do no work - that's somewhat of a disincentive to people who would like to work hard to get rich.

The solution, abolish inheritance.

BUT....

One of the reasons people work hard to save money is so they can pass it on to their children. If we abolished inheritance, people would have less incentive to save, and people would find it harder to borrow money to invest in new ventures.

It has nothing to do with property rights or any of that irrelevant crap; it's about regulating the economy to produce socially beneficial outcomes (which is what having a free market is really about), and as things stand right now, moderation in both is the only solution.

	01-08-2004 04:54									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I haven't seen one common sense post on the topic in this thread.

quote: Uh, che, if the people on the top make tons more money, then the mean gets skewed upward and the median is lower than the mean, like he just said!

	01-08-2004 04:59									#95
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Other than quibbling over side issues, the point still stands.

And to add.

Sure, overturn the estate tax. Then how do you make up for the shortfall in the tax take? Other than the "abolish all tax" and the "abolish everything the government does" nutters, everyone else is going to have to find somewhere else to get the money from.

There's a reason we have estate taxes. We could just as easily abolish them and raise income taxes, or sales taxes, or corporate taxes; but estate taxes serve the purpose of moderating the bad economic effects of inherited wealth.

	01-08-2004 05:01									#96
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Does the estate tax make up a significant portion of federal revenue?

	01-08-2004 05:17									#97
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Type of tax, number of filings, dollar amount (FY 2003)

Individual income tax, 130,728,360, 987,209,000,000
Corporation income tax , 5,890,821, 194,146,000,000
Employment taxes, 29,916,033, 695,976,000,00
Gift tax, 287,456, 1,939,000,000
Excise taxes, 812,483, 52,771,000,000
Estate tax, 91,679, 20,888,000,000

(Before refunds)

http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/article...=102886,00.html

	01-08-2004 05:29									#98
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quote: it also helps to guard against the creation of a perminent immutable upper class.

I didn't realise government exists to guard against this...the horror of it all... It also "guards" against lower class folks becoming upper middle and upper class folks. You know, the poorer children of the elderly who've accumulated some wealth over a lifetime.

Here is the liberal argument for grave robbing:

The children of those dead people did nothing to deserve that money.

Liberals did?

Those children deserve it because that's what wills are about - the rightful owner announcing who deserves their money.

Even if we assume these children don't deserve it (a convenient and false assumption) and liberals don't deserve it, doesn't this absence of moral authority put the question of moral authority back with the original owners of the wealth - the dying parents? It's their wishes that matter, not the children and not the liberals.

	01-08-2004 05:47									#99
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John, you could have tabbed those into alignment.

	01-08-2004 05:51									#100
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Type of tax, number of filings, dollar amount (FY 2003) Individual income tax, 130,728,360, 987,209,000,000 Corporation income tax , 5,890,821, 194,146,000,000 Employment taxes, 29,916,033, 695,976,000,00 Gift tax, 287,456, 1,939,000,000 Excise taxes, 812,483, 52,771,000,000 Estate tax, 91,679, 20,888,000,000 (Before refunds) http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/article...=102886,00.html

See? A drop in the bucket.

Though for a moment I read that as "Individual income tax, 130,728,360,987,209,000,000"

	01-08-2004 06:01									#101
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quote: See? A drop in the bucket

Then, by your logic, shouldn't people stop whining about it?

	01-08-2004 06:05									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker I didn't realise government exists to guard against this...the horror of it all... It also "guards" against lower class folks becoming upper middle and upper class folks. You know, the poorer children of the elderly who've accumulated some wealth over a lifetime.

Such tiny amounts are are not taxed. It was only for estates over a million dollars. Sheesh!

	01-08-2004 06:05									#103
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A drop in the bucket for the federal government - not for those taxed by it.

	01-08-2004 14:11									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker A drop in the bucket for the federal government - not for those taxed by it.

My taxes are a drop in the bucket for the government as well, but I doubt that will help me if I fail to pay them.

	01-08-2004 14:18									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker I'd bet you would be robbing graves if it was legal.

Do you think there is any thing there?

	01-08-2004 16:25									#106
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quote: Such tiny amounts are are not taxed. It was only for estates over a million dollars.

But liberals are fighting even modest increases in the threshhold, so it's a million or whatever because of Republicans. And for an elderly couple with maybe 2 or 3 million in total assets with 4 kids and even more grandchildren and other relatives, the amount each gets is not that great but enough to propel them upward wrt class. So while liberals try to call our attention to already wealthy children with parents who are rich enough to avoid the taxes, the people who get hit most are the less wealthy and their even less wealthy relatives.

quote: Do you think there is any thing there?

Personal items, jewelry, etc... Wealth... So why not legalise robbing graves to raise tax revenue? It's what you guys are doing with the death tax. Same principle