06-08-2004 10:25									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Any particular reason for Regent? Fine by me, but a bit off the norm...

BTW, I'd like this to be a non-previewed, non-modded game with everyone entering their own passwords the first turn, so that any seafaring tribe should get a coastal start.

How about the single restart option? I haven't heard anyone complain about it yet in other games, although I've only seen it used with random tribes. I'd say anyone choosing an ag tribe would have to forfeit their restart, but I doubt that will be an issue here... ;-)

	06-08-2004 10:41									#32
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I have my 5 nominations selected. That leaves:

Mickeyj to make any comments on game settings and nominate tribes;
Beta to make any comments on game settings and nominate his other 4 tribes;
and Dr. Zayus to put some content into his posts...

	06-08-2004 11:13									#33
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I will just say this, I personally prefer a modded game.

Even if all a map maker does is double check to make sure there is no gross displacement of resources and then places the CIV's.

Now if you want to know why< its because it seems like the patches that come out are compatible with Modded games and not compatible with non modded games.

I JUST got rid of my 1.15 dual install. I would like to avoid having to do another dual install in the future

	06-08-2004 11:38									#34
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I ditched 1.15 like 5 months ago. 1.22 is the PBEM patch and has been from the release. Apart from fixing barbarian tunnel vision, the only thing really useful from the next (Q2???) patch would be to fix coastal start assignments in pregenerated games, which is why I mention it now. Either we need to have an immaculate generation, or to eliminate seafaring tribes altogether. Seafaring on a pangea PBEM game is weak enough, being land-locked in addition is lights-out.

BTW- you got your civs...?

	06-08-2004 19:14									#35
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D I ditched 1.15 like 5 months ago. 1.22 is the PBEM patch and has been from the release. Apart from fixing barbarian tunnel vision, the only thing really useful from the next (Q2???) patch would be to fix coastal start assignments in pregenerated games, which is why I mention it now. Either we need to have an immaculate generation, or to eliminate seafaring tribes altogether. Seafaring on a pangea PBEM game is weak enough, being land-locked in addition is lights-out. BTW- you got your civs...?

I only bring this up because an EPIC PBEM is a LOOOOOOONG term proposition. It would be nice if we set it up so that if we so decide to upgrade in the future, the ability to do so we be greatly enhanced.

Im not saying I wont play if its not upgradable in the future.

All Im saying is I dealt with the dual install for several months. It got to be a hassle for me remembering which one was which in PBEM's. So if it gets to be a hassle in the future, it will get to be less fun for me and my commitment will wane. Especially during times at work were Im all stressed out and the last thing I want to do is figure where to sned a .sav and which ICON to hit for which version. Its sounds simple but when you have 8 or 10 PBEMs' you are playing, and your as old as I am, you need to hire an accountant to keep track.

It just isn't fun for me after a while. Less fun = less feeling like continueing in a PBEM.

This is just a suggestion and I realize it will take some extra work and another person for the map, but a little work now could save the game down the road.

	06-08-2004 20:01									#36
	Increase Your PM Length

I think we may be able to make it modded for the purposes that help with 1.15->1.22 simply by Rommel going in to the editor, enabling rules editing, and then saving it and using it as a "scenario" without even having to make any changes.

The reason for the hassle in change was specific to the changes in the default tech tree 1.20/1.22 (removal of Radio). That likely wouldn't happen again. But, we could use a "rules modified" biq just in case. I don't think it needs a custom map at all.

	06-08-2004 20:01									#37
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I've now pm'd my tribes to Rommel.

I'm not to fussed with the game rules, I think the 24 hour rule is good.

I am away for two wekks over september but would be happy to let one of the other PBEM regulars play my turns for me over that period but i'll let you all know when the time comes.

Let the good times roll........................

[edit] - conmcb25 - whats this about CIV2 cheaters??

	06-08-2004 20:06									#38
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D Any particular reason for Regent? Fine by me, but a bit off the norm...

Less corruption than Monarch if that's what you mean by the norm. If you mean Emporer, I'm game for 1 citizen born content if that's wanted.

	06-08-2004 20:23									#39
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Regent or monarch is my preference because of lower corruption ... but emperor wouldn't kill me ^^

	06-08-2004 22:06									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep I think we may be able to make it modded for the purposes that help with 1.15->1.22 simply by Rommel going in to the editor, enabling rules editing, and then saving it and using it as a "scenario" without even having to make any changes. The reason for the hassle in change was specific to the changes in the default tech tree 1.20/1.22 (removal of Radio). That likely wouldn't happen again. But, we could use a "rules modified" biq just in case. I don't think it needs a custom map at all.

This sounds fine to me KLO, the easier the better, and like I said, Im just trying to INCREASE the possibilities of upgrade, thats all.

Ill get you my CIV choices later today or tomorrow, today at work really sucks for me.

	07-08-2004 05:16									#41
	Put an end to popups!

The thing about the tech-tree being changed and affecting non-modded games was a fluke. PBEM games needed to be upgraded because 1.22 fixed a major PBEM bug. The technical problems comming from removing radio, while a good idea, was poorly timed by Firaxis. It looks unlikely there will be any patch at all, and the odds that modding the game will be needed to make it upgradable are even smaller, especially if they're taking their time to pollish up a final patch.

If the game can be modded without affecting map generation, no problem, but I'm not playing with seafaring tribes if the coastal thing is mucked up.

With a turn time limit, PBEMs aren't LOOOOOOONG term, just Loong term propositions. Would anyone really have a day where they can't at some point take 3 minutes to log on to Poly and type "too busy, will play tomorrow"? How about a 36 hour clock? We need some way to discipline Beta when he goes on a bender like this...

BTW- con, why do you keep bringing up C-4? You planning some sabotage or something...?

	07-08-2004 06:41									#42
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I'm not a bender. I am trash talking Rhothaerill in the AU601 thread.

As to settings - Monarch or Emperor. I am with snoop on the 24 hour rule - but I could go with a hard 36 hour rule. Pangaea. And 80% water. The best map generator IMHO.

Age and temperature - all normal. Barbs - restless or raging.

If we know we have a pangaea, I am Ok with ditching the seafaring civs.

My choices on the way. And oh yes - putting on my blindfold now. I s tha t how t his g aame is suppppose to be played? Da.mm ed kkkey boa rd . Where di ...t go. Shoullld b e a ffun gammme.

	07-08-2004 06:57									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I really don't think we need a hard turn limit of any sort ... I really don't. Nobody here is on my "Don't play with X, they take too long slash go on unannounced aways" list, and I really think we can agree together on the fly if someone is doing such things. Most of the time, problems with sending the save etc. are the cause of delays, when it's not a moron just being slow -- and that can be fixed by a timely email or PM on our part.

I'd vote for just playing a normal game. I agree that there will 90% likely not be another upgrade, and there's no vital bug that would require us to upgrade to it anyway. If there is ... we'll all be playing dual install forever anyway, since i don't see very many people here who are in less than ten games right now. ^^

	07-08-2004 08:06									#44
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I think we're set with:
Standard Pagea, 80% water (to give seafarers some 'real estate')
Restless barbarians
C/T/A: normal/temperate/4bill
Default rules? (anyone care about culturally linked starts?)

As for difficulty, Monarch seems the most popular choice. We could go with something else if there's a good reason (Regent to go easy on these sucky tribes, Demi-god to make sure barbarians aren't just for target practice, etc...)

Snoopy, Mj, and Beta have PMed me their lists, Kloreep has his and so do I, which means we're now waiting just on con to list his C4s...

	07-08-2004 08:23									#45
	Full PM-box? Change here!

The turn limit I'm proposing isn't a hard one at all. If there are network troubles or there's any indication by the player that they expect an absence or some down time, we'd patiently wait. The turn limit would be imposed only if a player seemingly drops off the face of 'Poly unexpectedly. With players that are as reliable as we have here (right? ;-), that would be only in the case of a RL emergency. In such an event, I'd actually be comforted to think that everyone else is playing on without me instead of waiting around to hear what happened, ie not having to concern myself with the game at all.

	07-08-2004 09:49									#46
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

So SeaFaring CIV's are back in right?

If so you shall have my Civ choices tomorrow after I have an answer, thanks

	07-08-2004 10:58									#47
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Yep...
...
...
...

	08-08-2004 02:14									#48
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D Would anyone really have a day where they can't at some point take 3 minutes to log on to Poly and type "too busy, will play tomorrow"? How about a 36 hour clock? We need some way to discipline Beta when he goes on a bender like this...

If I can't stop to play my turn, chances are I can't log in to say I can't either; especially earlier in the game when turns don't take that long.

I'd be okay with 48 or probably even 36 hours, but I'd prefer not to have a turn wasted because I have to unexpectedly drop off the net for 24 hours for some reason. Which doesn't happen all that often, but frankly, I'm not thinking about how I'm holding the game up if something is that urgent; and once I can finally get back to it, having my turn skipped could upset my plans, potentially quite a lot depending on what I was doing. (Hopefully this shouldn't come up anyway if people post when they're going to be away for a day or two.)

Re: Culture link locations - I prefer to have them off.

Also, since it seems we're finally approaching the end of Phase I of selection, I've PMed my choices to Rommel so that you guys don't have to wait around for me once con posts his.

	08-08-2004 03:13									#49
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Ok, culture links off.

Does anyone know if you can still enable Y-axis wrapping with the editor and if you need to pre-generate a map to do it? Seafaring Civs will be in and I think this is a nice little bonus for them if it works with new random maps...

36hr clock- Yea or Nea?

I'll post the nomination tallies as soon as con decides. Any last minute changes anyone would like to make...?

	08-08-2004 03:21									#50
	Tired of ads?

This is a pretty tight knit group of regular pbem players. I don't think we need a clock. I echo snoopy and Klo's comments.

And yes - culture link off.

	08-08-2004 03:42									#51
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Y wrapping should be possible with a still random map. It's a checked menu option seperate from the actual map generation (which also has a checkbox).

The key is: you must then uncheck "custom map" *after* you do this. Otherwise of course it misbehaves.

Attached is a .biq with these settings (ONLY 'custom rules' checked and Y wrapping enabled, no other changes -- all rule modifications are still allowed). I tested it in C3C to make sure it worked.

If you are getting bugs telling you it can't find enough starting locations -- or if you get a preview of a blank map -- then you forgot to uncheck the "custom map" option.

Attachment: ywrappingrandmap.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	08-08-2004 03:49									#52
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and of course i'm voting nea on the clock ^^

	08-08-2004 10:39									#53
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quote: Originally posted by snoopy369 Attached is a .biq with these settings (ONLY 'custom rules' checked and Y wrapping enabled, no other changes -- all rule modifications are still allowed). I tested it in C3C to make sure it worked.

But did you successfully polar-navigate the map? The ones I generate with this .biq (or my own) all have polar ice caps if randomly generated, at least in SP

	08-08-2004 10:56									#54
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It's the same in a PBEM game I just tried- Polar Caps.

	08-08-2004 11:03									#55
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 If so you shall have my Civ choices tomorrow after I have an answer, thanks

I suppose you're going to say that you posted this after midnight EDT so it isn't in fact a bold faced lie...

(no wonder Kloreep says you have no honor. )

	08-08-2004 12:06									#56
	Full PM-box? Change here!

ooh oh well... didn't try that far ^^

Perhaps you can ask someone to set it up? They don't actually have to look at the map (if you don't like that, although I don't mind it). Just set up the scenario, ask the scenario editor to generate a map randomly, and then save it...

	08-08-2004 18:54									#57
	Remove this text

No it wasn't a lie, it just slipped my mind.

I was kind of busy yesterday trying to get my families second desktop going again as anyone who is a MZO regular probably knows.

It was unsuccessful

I will however look at this right now and send rommel a PM.

	08-08-2004 21:15									#58
	Remove this text

Im sending the PM now

	08-08-2004 21:17									#59
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PM sent

	08-08-2004 21:53									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D (no wonder Kloreep says you have no honor. )

Err, where did I say that?

quote: Originally posted by snoopy369 ooh oh well... didn't try that far ^^ Perhaps you can ask someone to set it up? They don't actually have to look at the map (if you don't like that, although I don't mind it). Just set up the scenario, ask the scenario editor to generate a map randomly, and then save it...

So long as they deleted the starting locations, I think seafaring civs would be placed normally along the coast.