05-08-2004 01:41									#61
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quote: But they didn't want her to eat the pork in their workplace because they believe it to be unclean. So it harmed them. They own the company, therefore the employee should shut the f*** up and follow company policy on the prohibition of eating pork .

You might as well abolish every ( workers) right then..anyone can come with something against anything.

quote: I understand the justification from the Ami side. Not from the Euro side...

For me this is a case of someone abusing his power (money) to push his agenda/beliefs.

BTW: of course she was stupid for doing this and seeking the confrontation.

	05-08-2004 01:42									#62
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quote: So my final suggestion, very American (or at least it was at one time) DONT rely on govt law to protect the employee - rely on COLLECTIVE BARGAINING - in other words, dont SUE, lady, JOIN A UNION - ORGANIZE.

	05-08-2004 01:42									#63
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If everybody else in the place is a devout Muslim then she's going to have a hard time unionising them over this.

	05-08-2004 01:43									#64
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quote: Originally posted by alva You might as well abolish every ( workers) right then..anyone can come with something against anything.

That's a bollocks slippery slope argument. I'd hardly count my so-called "right" to eat pork products as high among the fundamentals that I hold dear to my heart.

	05-08-2004 01:43									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Verbal contracts aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Besides his rules are religiously based and thus against Federal law.

What verbal contract? When she signed on to join the company, she signed on to abide by their rules.

quote: Christians have gotten the pants sued off of them for much less so this is going to be an open and shut case.

Care to cite one case where a private Christian organization has been successfully sued for not allowing an employ to do something that was not part of the employee's religious practice?

	05-08-2004 01:44									#66
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse I don't believe that employers should have the right to fire at will

Employees have the right to quit at will.

	05-08-2004 01:44									#67
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quote: If everybody else in the place is a devout Muslim then she's going to have a hard time unionising them over this.

Probably, but that's not the only reason to unionize.

	05-08-2004 01:44									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Care to cite one case where a private Christian organization has been successfully sued for not allowing an employ to do something that was not part of the employee's religious practice?

The Boy Scouts! Oh, waitaminute...

	05-08-2004 01:45									#69
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quote: Originally posted by alva For me this is a case of someone abusing his power (money) to push his agenda/beliefs.

How is this different from the government using their power to ban headscarves in schools in France?

(BTW you might have been against that too; it's just that on that case, in general, the roles were reversed in the argument).

	05-08-2004 01:47									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Eating pork harms no-one, therefore the compagny should shut the f*** up and let her do her job. But they didn't want her to eat the pork in their workplace because they believe it to be unclean. So it harmed them. They own the company, therefore the employee should shut the f*** up and follow company policy on the prohibition of eating pork .

If she forced them to eat it, she would harm them. What was it that harmed them? The sight of it? The smell? If they are offended by it, they may build a separate lunch room for pork-eaters with double door and a separate ventilation system. Perhaps there should be a guard checking the people entering the building if there is no pork left between their teeth since their last meals. Burping, vomitting, gasing, kissing should be considered a religious offence.
Does the harmful effect of the pig stayes also after its parts are dissolved in stomach acid? If so, any pork-eater shouldn't be allowed to enter the building... or any Muslim quater... or any Muslim state... or any place on Earth inhabited by the pious ones. You never know who's ever eaten pork, perhaps even unintentionally. Meeting with people could be dangerous. No-one knows after how long time the pork spell wears out too. Perhaps never.
I see only one sollution: killing every pig in the world, so that no-one could eat it anymore, and then killing every living person in the world, in case they've commited the disgusting crime of eating a pork.

	05-08-2004 01:47									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo quote: If everybody else in the place is a devout Muslim then she's going to have a hard time unionising them over this. Probably, but that's not the only reason to unionize.

Yup. I dont think the lady will really do that - I mainly wanted to take this opportunity, when my conservative friends are bemoaning an injustice to an employee, to let them rethink what unions are about.

	05-08-2004 01:47									#72
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Employees have the right to quit at will.

As well they should

I don't see it as an equal relationship though

C'mon MtG, I think that the State should own the means of production...do you really think that my view of the employee/employer relationship will be as simple as the libertarian ideal of contract?

	05-08-2004 01:47									#73
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Btw, I find eating Bisexuals, Lesbians, and Transsexuals despicable, and not only at work.

	05-08-2004 01:48									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin The reason she will win is because there is no other purpose for the pork ban then to force other people to abide by one groups religious rules.

The other purpose is that pork creates an unpleasant environment for them, being Muslims, and they have a right to prohibit anything in their office that makes it unpleasant for the employees so long as it is not a fundamental part of someone's religious worship. That's why companies could prohibit smoking if they so desired before there were laws prohibiting it in the work place, or even evidence SHS was dangerous. Or why my company can ban flowers.

They aren't forcing their religion on her--they're forcing their standards of cleanliness on her. It's the same concept as allowing companies to set standards of dress.

	05-08-2004 01:51									#75
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What is a standart of cleanliness?
Non-christians bear the dirt of the primary sin.

	05-08-2004 01:51									#76
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Most nonsensical post of the thread.

	05-08-2004 01:53									#77
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quote: How is this different from the government using their power to ban headscarves in schools in France?

Using their social power to push their agenda?

Anyway, religion has no place in a school, enough little minds have been poisened over the centuries with these b*ll*cks.

	05-08-2004 01:55									#78
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse How is this different from the government using their power to ban headscarves in schools in France? (BTW you might have been against that too; it's just that on that case, in general, the roles were reversed in the argument).

[troll] cause the euros, with all their pious statements about the US and Israel and gitmo and the patriot act are in fact deathly afraid of the muslims in their midst, and will support any policy, from a headscarf ban, to employee rights, that limits the spread of muslim practice - the Amerians, wisely, choose to tolerate Islam and accept diverisity, while battling Islamic radicalism in the middle east instead, so as to retain freedom and tolerance at home (well other than some americans and of course nothing in this or any post should be portrayed as insulting to Oerdin, who risks his life every day)[troll off]

	05-08-2004 01:55									#79
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quote: Anyway, religion has no place in a school

Religion has no place anywhere.

	05-08-2004 01:56									#80
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Second most nonsensical post of the thread.

	05-08-2004 01:56									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Heresson If they are offended by it, they may build a separate lunch room for pork-eaters with double door and a separate ventilation system.

Or they can just make a rule that employees aren't allowed to eat pork on the premises, which, IMO, is a much easier solution.

	05-08-2004 01:56									#82
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quote: Forcing other people to observe religious practices as a condition of employment is against federal law

So what you are saying is that Churchs have to allow Satanists into their employment as priests? I'd imagine priests have to be the religion that the Church is. Isn't that forcing them to observe the religious practices as a condition of employment?

quote: They aren't forcing their religion on her--they're forcing their standards of cleanliness on her. It's the same concept as allowing companies to set standards of dress.

Yep.

	05-08-2004 01:57									#83
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LOTM, that can be expressed better as:

USA! USA! USA!

	05-08-2004 01:57									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel quote: Anyway, religion has no place in a school Religion has no place anywhere.

Makom

	05-08-2004 01:58									#85
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Second most nonsensical post of the thread.

* bows *

	05-08-2004 02:02									#86
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse LOTM, that can be expressed better as: USA! USA! USA!

Damn straight!


G-d Bless America!!!!!!!!


Half seriously, I think we're onto something here, and that we have more to be proud of than natural beauty, and that while we can learn from the Euros and Canadians about stuff like health insurance, they have more to learn from us then theyre in the mood to learn lately, or (most unfortunately) non-conservative Americans are willing to assert.


USA! USA! USA!

	05-08-2004 02:04									#87
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger Or they can just make a rule that employees aren't allowed to eat pork on the premises, which, IMO, is a much easier solution.

Ah, now there's an idea.

Since employees are not (presumably) required to eat lunch on premises, she can just go elsewhere when she wants to eat her ham sandwiches.

	05-08-2004 02:04									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov What verbal contract? When she signed on to join the company, she signed on to abide by their rules.

Read the original article again. She didn't sign anything.

	05-08-2004 02:07									#89
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse As well they should I don't see it as an equal relationship though C'mon MtG, I think that the State should own the means of production...do you really think that my view of the employee/employer relationship will be as simple as the libertarian ideal of contract?

I know you're a godless commie , I just wanted to expose your bias.

	05-08-2004 02:11									#90
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark and that while we can learn from the Euros and Canadians about stuff like health insurance, they have more to learn from us then theyre in the mood to learn lately

quote: they have more to learn from us then theyre in the mood to learn lately

If you think that France and Canada are on the same wavelength on the headscarves thing then you're a bit off.

If anything we generally swing more towards the rights of religious minorities than you do.

With regards to this particular case, the company might be in trouble in Canada because we have generally stronger protections written into our labour laws wrt unfair termination.