04-08-2004 23:49									#1
	Woman fired for eating BLT at work Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Woman Fired For Eating 'Unclean' Meat Attorney: 'It's A Classic Case Of Religious Discrimination' POSTED: 5:46 am EDT August 4, 2004 UPDATED: 12:45 pm EDT August 4, 2004 ORLANDO, Fla. -- A Central Florida woman was fired from her job after eating "unclean" meat and violating a reported company policy that pork and pork products are not permissible on company premises, according to Local 6 News. Lina Morales was hired as an administrative assistant at Rising Star -- a Central Florida telecommunications company with strong Muslim ties, Local 6 News reported. However, 10 months after being hired by Rising Star, religious differences led to her termination. Morales, who is Catholic, was warned about eating pizza with meat the Muslim faith considered "unclean.," Local 6 News reported. She was then fire for eating a bacon, lettuce and tomato sandwich, according to the report. "Are you telling me they fired you because you had something with ham on it?" Local 6 News reporter Mike Holfeld asked. "Yes," Morales said. Holfeld asked, "A pizza and a BLT sandwich?" " Yes," Morales said. Local 6 News obtained the termination letter that states she was fired for refusing to comply with company policy that pork and pork products are not permissible on company premises. However, by the company's own admission to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, that policy is not written, Local 6 News reported. "Did you ever sign to or agree to anything that said I will not eat pork?" Holfeld asked Morales. "Never," Morales said. "When I got hired there, they said we don't care what religion you are." Attorney Travis Hollifield is representing Morales in a lawsuit against the company. "It's just un-American," Hollifield said. "It's not in compliance with the laws of this country." Local 6 News reported that the case has precedent-setting issues because it addresses employee rights and religion in the workplace. "It's a classic case of religious discrimination," Hollifield said. "They have not articulated a single reason other than religious reason behind the policy." The CEO of Rising Star, Kujaatele Kweli, told Local 6 News that they have tried to create an office that accommodates anybody's religion -- not just Islam. "Clearly you're accommodating," Holfeld said. "Yes." Kweli replied. "And you have an ecumenical philosophy," Holfeld said. " Yes," Kweli replied. "(Then) shouldn't you be able to accommodate all faiths in the same lunch room?" Holfeld asked. "We do, we can," Kweli said. "But you've dismissed one of your employees for eating pork in the lunch room," Holfeld said. "Yes, pork is considered unclean," Kweli said. The Koran forbids Muslims from eating pork. And according to Kweli, Morales and every employee at the company is advised of the no pork policy. "Our point of view is to respect the laws of the land and the laws of the land as I understand it is to the accommodate people's right to practice their religions if you can," Kweli said. "Even if it impacts other people?" Holfeld asked. "Well, it always impacts other people," Kweli replied. Orlando attorney Mark Nejame is close to the Muslim community, Local 6 News reported. He said Kweli's intentions may cross constitutional parameters, according to the report. "They're making it seem that if you don't follow a certain set of religious practices and beliefs then you're going to be terminated and that's wrong," Nejame said. "If this case prevails, what it will mean -- the implications of this case -- is it will eliminate accommodations of religion." Both sides are steadfast in their belief that they are right. Morales is taking the company to court charging discrimination, Local 6 News reported.

http://www.local6.com/money/3614199/detail.html

Now, I'm all for companies being able to hire and fire whoever they please but this is just ridiculous. If she wasn't informed about this before being hired and never signed anything, I think the company is wrong here.

	04-08-2004 23:52									#2
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If the company had a policy of not allowing pork, then she's SOL. She doesn't have to sign a specific statement--when she agrees to take the position, she agrees to abide by its rules.

Besides, in order for it to be religious discrimination, she'd have to prove that her eating pork is somehow a required aspect of her religious belief. Nowhere in Christianity is anyone required to eat pork.

	04-08-2004 23:54									#3
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What he said.

What I say: Just another whiny bint looking for a quick payoff.

	04-08-2004 23:59									#4
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Children are told they cannot bring peanut products into classrooms because of allergies. What's the difference?

	04-08-2004 23:59									#5
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Aren't you the same people who said that a person should be able to wear a headscarf no-matter what compagny policy is? Or is that different...

	05-08-2004 00:01									#6
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However, let this be a lesson learned for the company: always put stuff like this in writing... a policy book is good enough, better yet, have the employees sign that they have received and read the policy book.

	05-08-2004 00:01									#7
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What gives a company the right to impose these morals on others? I mean, this is not a health and safety issue, so she should be allowed to eat pork if she chooses. It most certainly isn't grounds for dismissal. Rather than companies being able to 'hire and fire whoever they like', you have to look at the other side of the coin and the responsibility that is wielded here over someone else's life and wellbeing. It is not simply sufficient to be able to do that as it can have a significant impact on someone's life! I've been at the receiving end of this, and so have other people. Good luck to her, it must be shown that this kind of discrimination is not acceptable

	05-08-2004 00:01									#8
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alva, you forget, the government can't do ****, corporations can do whatever they want to.

	05-08-2004 00:02									#9
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The issue is also - they may be able to put 'no eating pork' in a rulebook, but is it lawful to make such a concession? Could they, by the same token, put 'must fellate the CEO at every available opportunity'. Would you consider that to be lawful?

	05-08-2004 00:03									#10
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Ditto what Boris said.

She knew the rule even though she never signed anything. And it ain't religious discrimination because the company can easily assert that they would fire a Muslim who was eating pork as well. And eating pork is not a part of Christianity.

quote: Aren't you the same people who said that a person should be able to wear a headscarf no-matter what compagny policy is? Or is that different...

It is. For some people, wearing a headscarf is a part of their religious beliefs. Eating pork is a part of no one's religious beliefs.

	05-08-2004 00:04									#11
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There are laws against sexual harrassment, PH. Let's not blow this all out of proportion here.

	05-08-2004 00:05									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison What gives a company the right to impose these morals on others?

The same right that says they can set whatever dress code they want. A private entity has the right to set its own policies, so long as the policy doesn't infringe on the religious practice of an employee. As I said, since pork eating isn't a religious requirement for Christians, claiming this is some sort of religious persecution is a specious argument.

Now, if they were trying to force her to eat something she didn't want to, she might have a case.

	05-08-2004 00:06									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison The issue is also - they may be able to put 'no eating pork' in a rulebook, but is it lawful to make such a concession? Could they, by the same token, put 'must fellate the CEO at every available opportunity'. Would you consider that to be lawful?

There is a quantum difference between asking sexual favors as part of employment (which would be prostitution, which is illegal) and banning the flesh of a wonder, magical animal. There is no law mandating the consumption of pork products, and no relgion requires it.

Thought those people from the "other white meat" campaign should get in touch with this woman.

	05-08-2004 00:07									#14
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quote: A private entity has the right to set its own policies, so long as the policy doesn't infringe on the religious practice of an employee.

Yep. I think the peanut analogy brought up earlier is a good one. If most of the people there believe pork is unclean, they don't want it in their area and have the right to have it around them, just like people allergic to peanuts can have them not in their area.

	05-08-2004 00:07									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison The issue is also - they may be able to put 'no eating pork' in a rulebook, but is it lawful to make such a concession? Could they, by the same token, put 'must fellate the CEO at every available opportunity'. Would you consider that to be lawful?

Forcing someone to do something they don't want to do is not the same thing as prohibiting something they may want to do.

What if she wanted to wear a t-shirt that had racial slurs on it to work? Would they have no right to prohibit that?

	05-08-2004 00:09									#16
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quote: Forcing someone to do something they don't want to do is not the same thing as prohibiting something they may want to do.

That's libertarian thinking.

quote: What if she wanted to wear a t-shirt that had racial slurs on it to work? Would they have no right to prohibit that?

Irrelevant. Those should be banned anyway.

	05-08-2004 00:09									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: A private entity has the right to set its own policies, so long as the policy doesn't infringe on the religious practice of an employee. Yep. I think the peanut analogy brought up earlier is a good one. If most of the people there believe pork is unclean, they don't want it in their area and have the right to have it around them, just like people allergic to peanuts can have them not in their area.

The difference between this case and peanut allergy cases are the fact that peanut allergies are a health issue, one not easily avoided by the dictum of "if you don't like it, don't eat it."

	05-08-2004 00:12									#18
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the rule is "employment at will" - as long as she wasnt fired on account of race,religion or gender (or age under certain circumstances) wasnt fired cause of a disability, or to keep her from collecting a pension, or from joining or organizing a union, shes probably NOT gonna win a lawsuit.

On the other hand, depending on the circumstances (was she warned, what was the rationale, why didnt they have a contract to this effect etc) this COULD result in some fairly negative publicity for this company.

It is possible to be inequitable within the law, and the publicity game is not unknown with this sort of thing.

	05-08-2004 00:15									#19
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quote: Originally posted by GePap There is a quantum difference between asking sexual favors as part of employment (which would be prostitution, which is illegal) and banning the flesh of a wonder, magical animal. There is no law mandating the consumption of pork products, and no relgion requires it. Thought those people from the "other white meat" campaign should get in touch with this woman.

Does Islam consider the Pig a magical animal? Traditional Judaism doesnt, AFAIK. Its banned cause God said so, without going into his motives, for the most part. Nothing magical about them at all.

	05-08-2004 00:16									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel quote: Forcing someone to do something they don't want to do is not the same thing as prohibiting something they may want to do. That's libertarian thinking.

I don't care what you call it, it's the way it is. They aren't the same thing.

quote: quote: What if she wanted to wear a t-shirt that had racial slurs on it to work? Would they have no right to prohibit that? Irrelevant. Those should be banned anyway.

In public? I don't think so. As revolting as they are, people have a right to express such ideas.

	05-08-2004 00:18									#21
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Does Islam consider the Pig a magical animal? Traditional Judaism doesnt, AFAIK. Its banned cause God said so, without going into his motives, for the most part. Nothing magical about them at all.

The "wonderful, magical animal" is a Simpsons quote.

	05-08-2004 00:21									#22
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Gives me an idea of a torture to send to the US central intelligence agency for them to interrogate terrorists..... bathed in pig blood and forced to eat pork... heh.

	05-08-2004 00:22									#23
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT The "wonderful, magical animal" is a Simpsons quote.

	05-08-2004 00:38									#24
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark the rule is "employment at will" - as long as she wasnt fired on account of race,religion or gender (or age under certain circumstances) wasnt fired cause of a disability, or to keep her from collecting a pension, or from joining or organizing a union, shes probably NOT gonna win a lawsuit.

But that's why her lawyers are presenting it as a case of religious discrimination.

Of course, the organization could just as easily claim it's a health or working environment issue, not a religious one. My firm doesn't allow people to have flowers kept at their desks because the smell and pollen can bother others. Considering the number of employees at this organization that would be bothered by the presence of pork, they could just say it was their comfort.

It would have been nice, I suppose, if the organization had tried to accomodate her by perhaps designating some empty room or closet as her little space to eat pork all she wanted away from the rest of the employees, but they are under no obligation to do so. And I doubt she'd like that option anyway.

	05-08-2004 00:40									#25
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This is odd. I can't decide.

	05-08-2004 00:47									#26
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse This is odd. I can't decide.

yeah, a situation where conservatives are gathering round an expansive view of a fired employees rights to sue, and liberals are going to bat for employment at will, and its confused by the background issues that employer imposing of religious rules on employees is vaguely illiberal (at least if they didnt try to find a compromise, like BG discussed) and a sense that the sensitivity about MUSLIMS doing so is inspired by a certain illiberalism.

yeah, I'll stand aside and watch everyone else squirm.

	05-08-2004 00:48									#27
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quote: And I doubt she'd like that option anyway.

Same here. I mean after the first warning she could just not eat pork, but decided to anyway, so I doubt she'd taken kindly to being told she had to eat pork in another room somewhere.

	05-08-2004 00:50									#28
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The firing is definitely wrong, but it isn't illegal.

	05-08-2004 00:51									#29
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark yeah, a situation where conservatives are gathering round an expansive view of a fired employees rights to sue, and liberals are going to bat for employment at will, and its confused by the background issues that employer imposing of religious rules on employees is vaguely illiberal (at least if they didnt try to find a compromise, like BG discussed) and a sense that the sensitivity about MUSLIMS doing so is inspired by a certain illiberalism. yeah, I'll stand aside and watch everyone else squirm.

I don't believe that employers should have the right to fire at will

But behaviour on company grounds is subject to certain restrictions

And she was warned once already

And the management's policy may have a lot to do with the happiness of the company's other employees

So I'm conflicted

	05-08-2004 00:54									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: And I doubt she'd like that option anyway. Same here. I mean after the first warning she could just not eat pork, but decided to anyway, so I doubt she'd taken kindly to being told she had to eat pork in another room somewhere.

she might not like that, but at least it would look more reasonable. Im not familiar with muslim dietary law, but I know that bringing non kosher meat into a kosher dining facility can be a problem for the kashrut status of said facility. However I cant imagine a commercial institution run by observant jews that didnt make some accomodation for the eating of non-kosher food. Except during Passover of course, when the jewish law is much stricter, but then ALL outside food would probably be banned (as it is at my Synagogue, for example)