06-08-2004 19:50									#91
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If they weren't openly gay, they wouldn't get threatened.

	06-08-2004 19:54									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa ....and know working class people and know how they think and what they are like. But I don't know what gay people think and are like.

Errr...you can be gay and working class Atahualpa.

I was working class before I admitted to myself I was gay.

And I can't honestly say that what I think, or how I think has changed greatly from pre-gay to gay. It's just I'm more honest with myself about my sexuality, and feel that a tremendous burden was lifted from me.

I can only compare it with when I used to go to confession, and the feeling of ease after.

What exactly is it that you imagine we think about, given that I have no idea what MrFun or Boris are thinking, for instance?

I don't think we're plotting a Queer Eye makeover of the hetero world.

	06-08-2004 19:59									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue If they weren't openly gay, they wouldn't get threatened.

If you weren't openly a *****, neither would you.

	06-08-2004 20:01									#94
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hmm no I didn't miss that. But as with any other case as well, I don't turn my believe level 180° with just one source, which in addition is called Gay Newspaper (and therefore _probably_ has much more interest to make it look that way), I would be considered quite an "opinion hoper" if I'd adopt to that right away.

Now please don't misunderstand me that I want to dismiss this as nonsense or anything like that. It's just that _with every other subject as well_, if something I hear is going the opposite way of what I feel I am much more reluctant to make it an elementary point in my believes.

But okay, point taken, I have to inform myself and make sure that I get a good overview of the situation. If you want to reproach me for something, then take the fact that I haven't gone out much on the internet and searched for "gay matters" for myself. But before you do, I am about to google

	06-08-2004 20:04									#95
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Errr...you can be gay and working class Atahualpa. I was working class before I admitted to myself I was gay. And I can't honestly say that what I think, or how I think has changed greatly from pre-gay to gay. It's just I'm more honest with myself about my sexuality, and feel that a tremendous burden was lifted from me. I can only compare it with when I used to go to confession, and the feeling of ease after. What exactly is it that you imagine we think about, given that I have no idea what MrFun or Boris are thinking, for instance? I don't think we're plotting a Queer Eye makeover of the hetero world.

I think I am still thinking too much in my old categories. Good you pointed that out!

	06-08-2004 20:05									#96
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara You live the straight one.

Like hell I do. My lifestyle, up to an including trying to get laid, has alot more in common with your typical twenty-something Swedish gay guy than with Kim the heterosexual NK farmer.

	06-08-2004 20:12									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist than with Kim the heterosexual NK farmer.

So you've met him too?

He was eating grass and trying to avoid government experiments the last time I saw him.

	06-08-2004 20:14									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist Like hell I do.

So you're saying you're a metrosexual?

	06-08-2004 20:26									#99
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara If you weren't openly a *****, neither would you.

I was going to say the exact same thing, but you beat me to it

	06-08-2004 20:28									#100
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara If you weren't openly a *****, neither would you.

I'd watch it with the personal threats - you're already on a warning from Ming.

	06-08-2004 20:32									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue I'd watch it with the personal threats - you're already on a warning from Ming.

I doubt that was meant as a personal threat, he just pointed out why nobody in this thread likes you

	06-08-2004 20:35									#102
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Well you're all homophiles here. Dissenting opinion is banned.

	06-08-2004 20:42									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue Well you're all homophiles here. Dissenting opinion is banned.

It's hard being in the minority, isn't it? You would get along all right here if you wouldn't flaunt your opinions so openly

	06-08-2004 20:54									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue I'd watch it with the personal threats - you're already on a warning from Ming.

It wasn't a personal threat. It was a general observation. And I'm on no warning from Ming.

	06-08-2004 21:08									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue I'd watch it with the personal threats - you're already on a warning from Ming.

Hypocrisy, thy name is PA.

I still have that lovely PM you sent me a while back. I could forward it to che for his amusement.

	06-08-2004 22:04									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue I'd watch it with the personal threats - you're already on a warning from Ming.

coming from someone who justifies beating other people up for expressing themselves

	06-08-2004 22:13									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue I'd watch it with the personal threats - you're already on a warning from Ming.

Oh my English not so good white master. What is threat here please?


The grapes of wrath express a thin sour whine.........

	06-08-2004 22:17									#108
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara So you're saying you're a metrosexual?

Nope. I'm saying that lifestyles among heterosexuals vary so widely that any definition of "the heterosexual lifestyl" wide enough to include even a majority of heterosexuals will include very many homosexuals too, making the label "the heterosexual lifestyle" meaningless.

	06-08-2004 22:24									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist Nope. I'm saying that lifestyles among heterosexuals vary so widely that any definition of "the heterosexual lifestyl" wide enough to include even a majority of heterosexuals will include very many homosexuals too, making the label "the heterosexual lifestyle" meaningless.

Please explain this slowly and in words of monosyllables to Obi Gyn the next time he sloshes empty phrases such as 'gay lifestyle' around a discussion. He might trust it, coming from a non homosexualist gay type human being.

	06-08-2004 22:44									#110
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I do not know of any gay man who has the exact same lifestyle that I have.

	06-08-2004 22:47									#111
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun I do not know of any gay man who has the exact same lifestyle that I have.

Not everyone has the same degree of tolerance for glue, bread, galoshes and earmuffs.



Especially used in that combination in that way.

	06-08-2004 22:49									#112
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What is a lifestyle anyway? What all does that include?

	06-08-2004 22:51									#113
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I think lifestyle is something that is strongly influenced by your personal values, and your personality.

	06-08-2004 22:52									#114
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Not everyone has the same degree of tolerance for glue, bread, galoshes and earmuffs.

whatever trips your trigger, dear

	07-08-2004 00:09									#115
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Back to Anti-Gay threats, only now that I think of it I remember a weblog entry by someone at my favorite radio station (fm4) a while ago where there was portrayed the situation of gays in Jamaica (I think it was Jamaica), because of all that Anti-Gay sentiments in Ragga and Dancehall music. I was quite stunned then on how "chi chi men" get treated.
http://www.jahworks.org/music/inter..._interview.html

Beenie man "apologizes":
http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,14655,00.html

The situation seems to be really bad there. I have found other reports from Ecuador or Honduras on AI's site.
In the U.S. the chicago police has caught much attention.

This article is a bit contradictory to that posted by mercator and then quoted by che:

quote: ...Many consider homosexuality to be immoral because of strong language in the Bible prohibiting males from "lying with" males (especially Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27). But many Biblical prohibitions (e.g., against intercourse during menstruation or against masturbation) are ignored by modern culture, so it's clear that we can set aside the moral objections against homosexuality when we choose to do so. In the Netherlands, a Christian country, less than 20 percent of the public is anti-gay. Religious objections to homosexuality can, it seems, be overcome....

http://www.psychologytoday.com/htdo...0123-000001.asp

quote: *snip*gays were given aversion therapy; e.g. clients were shown pictures of naked men and simultaneously shocked with electricity.*snip*

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_fixe.htm




Also mentioned is that nearly every gay person has felt anti-gay sentiments already. How about you?

	07-08-2004 00:16									#116
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I think this thread is gay infected

	07-08-2004 00:24									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa hmm no I didn't miss that. But as with any other case as well, I don't turn my believe level 180° with just one source, which in addition is called Gay Newspaper (and therefore _probably_ has much more interest to make it look that way), I would be considered quite an "opinion hoper" if I'd adopt to that right away.

Quite right. It was a poll among 500 readers of a gay newspaper. On their website I can't find a whole lot more detail about the outcome of the poll either. But even if it is vague, it's enough to show that even in tolerant Holland, one of the few countries where gays can get married, it's still far from perfect.

	07-08-2004 00:54									#118
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Good to know. I dug up some more dirt and a german site listed some of the headlines from 1998 to 1999, I am quite shocked.

Also it seemed that the culprits are mainly adolescents and someone claimed a large number of homophobic people show homosexual tendencies for themselves, they use their hatred to overcompensate their sexual desires.

	07-08-2004 00:57									#119
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That's why we all believe that PA is a closet gay.

	07-08-2004 01:02									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa Also mentioned is that nearly every gay person has felt anti-gay sentiments already. How about you?

I think it would be easier to try to find some gay person who has not experienced them, directly or indirectly, on a regular basis.

Hell, we even regularly hear these "sentiments" from our own government, including sombre declarations that our possible marriage will cause dire, irreparable damage to the institution itself!

By the way, I applaud your willingness to consider new points of view.