05-08-2004 07:02									#1
	Games with no iron Get a bigger avatar today!

What do you do?

Iron to me seems like such an overpowered resource. I'm considering quitting this game. I've never really had another game with no iron that I can think of (except one- and I quit that one).

I play random civs. I ended up as Arabia. I need iron for their uu. My only neighbor is India- who are fairly peaceful... so far. But their uu doesn't require iron (and they also lack iron). The celts are further in and appear to have 2 sources- neither are connected yet.

I need iron for factories. That's the biggie. These are what allow me to win games. I suppose by that point the celts will connect their iron, and I could possibly buy it off of them. I just don't like being in that position.

	05-08-2004 07:07									#2
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Go get some from the Celts before they get one hooked up long enough to build GS. Archers, horses and spears should do the trick if you're still in the ancient. If not, longbows and muskets.

	05-08-2004 07:13									#3
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I always try and make sure I obtain an iron resource as soon as possible. I've built a city dozens of tiles away just to have iron.

Otherwise I build up my armed forces and try and take over the nearest iron resource.

	05-08-2004 07:25									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi Go get some from the Celts before they get one hooked up long enough to build GS. Archers, horses and spears should do the trick if you're still in the ancient. If not, longbows and muskets.

I can't get to them unless I go through India. They are fairly far away (though they are on my continent). by the time I get there, my horseman will be facing pikeman.

my fault I guess. This is what happens when you go for republic before Iron working . I had a crappy starting position anyways. But I never restart immediately. I usually play them through and see if I can make something of them.

	05-08-2004 07:27									#5
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Send more horsemen. Pikes aren't invincible, just good.

The other option would be to beeline for MT, skip the iron age entirely and go get some when you get cavs.

	05-08-2004 08:06									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

slap them pikes back into the ground

it has been done before and it will be done again

ahh although the cost in troops and horseflesh may be high, you will have your iron

	05-08-2004 08:51									#7
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Play as the Indians

	05-08-2004 16:43									#8
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Sounds like a more interesting game than average.

A 'no iron' AAR / strategy would be worth reading.

	05-08-2004 18:45									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

Got ivory?

	05-08-2004 19:02									#10
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You better buddy up with the Celts and/or India. Perhaps an Arabia-Indian alliance against the Celts.

I agree, it does make for a challenging and potentially interesting game!

	05-08-2004 19:43									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus Got ivory?

That works too

	05-08-2004 19:58									#12
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Why not RoP with India and invade the Celts?

	05-08-2004 20:12									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Cookie Monster Why not RoP with India and invade the Celts?

I have C3C, I don't think I can ROP yet. What tech does it take to get those diplomatic agreements? I always forget.

	05-08-2004 20:32									#14
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Just an embassy for ROP, which comes with writing.

	05-08-2004 21:16									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I will continue with this game.

Does anyone know if you can build power plants without factories? I don't think you can- you couldn't in civ2. Though I should be able to obtain iron by then.

but I think for once I should continue a challenging game. Like I said, my start position was terrible. It took me 50 turns to research Republic!. I had no rivers to start near.

Because technically- I have never lost a game of civ3- except for the games I retired. But I will not retire in this game. I will force the AI to beat me one way or another.

	05-08-2004 21:26									#16
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I don't remember which plants have which requirement, but even if you could, I do know they're dependent on factories, so they won't boost production. As I mentioned in another thread, several times I've built Hoover before discovering Industrialization, and the resulting hydro plants did nothing until I got factories up. You've got to go get that iron, or keep checking F2 every turn to see if the Celts have some available for trade.

	05-08-2004 22:15									#17
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Hm, I always thought Hydro plants from Hoover gave the bonus...

	05-08-2004 22:34									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Hearing some updates on this game would be interesting, Dissident.

	05-08-2004 22:48									#19
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Yes they would. The bigger issue here is the resource scarcity. There are two sides to this issue, both good and bad. Im still not convinced yet that its good......

	05-08-2004 22:56									#20
	Re: Games with no iron Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Dissident I need iron for factories. That's the biggie. These are what allow me to win games. I suppose by that point the celts will connect their iron, and I could possibly buy it off of them. I just don't like being in that position.

You're quite a ways from Industrialization. There's plenty of time to secure Iron. Your first mistake is to despair.

Very rarely will the resource scarcity be such that it is impossible to trade for Iron. You might need to be creative. The weak, Iron-less military that you do have may not be able to conquer enemies like you're used to, but it can (for example) make sure one of your allies has two Iron sources within his borders (which you can then trade for).

I'm sure you're situation is not hopeless. Post a save and we'll help you out of it.

	05-08-2004 23:23									#21
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well I kept playing. Now I have no saltpeter

The good thing is I built the Knights Templar. So that has been my military aside from a few horseman and archers. I can't even build pikeman. I have no other contact with the other continents. I don't cheat and do suicide galleys. But I'm getting close to astronomy and navigation...

While the Indians do not have iron, they do have saltpeter.

	05-08-2004 23:51									#22
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This is rich! At least you are assured that your strategic resource "horses" will not disappear!!!!

	06-08-2004 00:17									#23
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Wow now you have no saltpeter?!? I've been in this situation before and it's not fun.

How are you compared to the other civs? Hit F8 and check your percent landmass vs. your nearest competitor. What is your score in relation to the others? If you are not too far behind then concentrate on getting to the industrial age asap. You need to find out if you have rubber at least. Once you get rubber then start conquering. Until you reach that stage just keep pumping out whatever military units you can. You mustn't be weak or the ai will get you.

If you are far behind on landmass, productivity, and score then you will have to check the diplomacy screen every turn and see if you can get some favorable trade deals. Trade tech for cash per turn deals are the best. Dump any excess luxuries onto the market. There must be someone out there willing to pay you a good price for whatever you have.

	06-08-2004 01:22									#24
	Inflate your Upload Space

Wait, you reload for combat results, but consider suicide galleys cheating?

I've been shut out of rubber and coal before, but at least had saltpeter to go get them. Damn, the options are disappearing quickly. Start building bombardment units and spears. Beeline to RP and try to have a hoard of spears in a barracks city on the Indian border when you get it, along with your trebs. Upgrade to Inf and artillery (which means a sizable cash on hand supply) and go get some.

Are you detecting a basic principle behind my suggestions yet?

	06-08-2004 01:24									#25
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You simply must get iron by the time you get to the industrial age or it's all over. No RR or factories = lose.

	06-08-2004 05:05									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi Wait, you reload for combat results, but consider suicide galleys cheating?

This is off-topic, but how do you know if a player reloads for combat results purely from their saves? I'm trying to ween myself off this cheat, but its really hard!

	06-08-2004 06:42									#27
	Got spare money?

Iron is nice to have, but you can win without it. Especially when you neighbor didn't have Iron either... easy pickings for Horsemen. At some point you should have traded for one of the Celt's Iron sources (sign an ROP and use your own Workers to build the roads if you have to), upgraded a bunch of Ansars, and gone and claimed both sources though.

	06-08-2004 07:16									#28
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quote: Originally posted by petermarkab This is off-topic, but how do you know if a player reloads for combat results purely from their saves? I'm trying to ween myself off this cheat, but its really hard!

I don't know if it works, but I have read that Gramphos's tool can tell if you reloaded or not. I am guessing it has a count or at least a flag. If it does, that does not prove they did anything nefarious.

	06-08-2004 07:41									#29
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I think Solomwi was just referencing Dissident's post in the "Stop me from cheating" thread.

The save does store data on how many reloads there have been though. Not sure if Gramphos' tool give accurate results there, last I checked it wasn't giving the right numbers.

	06-08-2004 07:51									#30
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Two things, Aeson...

1. Yes, I was referencing his other post.

2. His neighbor is the most non-iron dependent civ in the game, India. Not that that should stop him from doing just what you (and I, numerous times ) suggested, just that the "especially when your neighbor" part is less applicable in this case than most others.