05-08-2004 17:35									#1
	What does a n00b need to know about EUII? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I eagerly await my copy of EUII that I ordered from ebay recently. In the intervening 2 weeks or so, what should I know about the game prior to playing it? Is there a campaign/game mode that I should try first? An online strat guide I need to read first? RTFM first (assuming the copy I bought comes with a manual)?

Enlighten me, please.

	05-08-2004 18:15									#2
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Bookmark the paradox forums.

	06-08-2004 07:49									#3
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actually i wouldn't visit the eu2 forums right away. they are simply too helpful now imo. try the tutorial first. for me that was enough to teach me the basics. i figured out most of the rest on my own. you will probably have to visit the forums to be able to understand everything though. also make sure to patch the game up to at least 1.05 but going straight to the latest patch(1.08) would probably be ok(but the game is much harder on that patch).

	06-08-2004 19:11									#4
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I recommend patching straight to 1.08. Otherwise, you'll be talking apples to oranges if you post questions for answers. The vast majority use the 1.08 patch, I believe.

	07-08-2004 20:07									#5
	Re: What does a n00b need to know about EUII? Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt I eagerly await my copy of EUII that I ordered from ebay recently.

If you don't mind my asking, how much is it costing you?

And for anyone who already has the game, is it reasonably easy to learn and fun to play?

The reason I ask is that I just bought a copy as I came across a UK offer of 2 games for 14.99 pounds sterling. One choice was Destroyer Command (which I wanted) and the only other game that looked interesting was EU2, so I ordered it, but don't really know anything about it beyond a quick peek at the Paradox forums.

	07-08-2004 20:32									#6
	Got spare money?

It's not that easy to learn (unless you've played previous Paradox games), but is immensely fun to play.

	09-08-2004 00:43									#7
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For GePap, playing China:

quote: I've not played for a while, so recent patches may have changed things, but: China is a poor choice for a new player; the revolt events it gets are just killer. Their inferior tech isn't much fun either. The only way to lower inflation prior to infra 4 is by event (random or scripted). Just keep the treasury slider at a very low level most of the time. Annual census taxes don't contribute to inflation; these should make up the bulk of your spending in normal circumstances. Promote tax collectors in most provinces to get at that lovely inflation free income. You should always keep your armies on half wages, except during wartime. Many nations start out with armies that are totally beyond their means to afford; either use them up in an early war, or disband them. Transports are also of questionable use: galleys and warships can usually carry all the troops you need, and transports are dirt cheap anyway, so I usually disband them. Unless you have a colonial Centre of Trade that no-one else knows about, it's extremely wasteful to try and maintain a monopoly. The Ai will try to force you out relentlessly. Just settle for a large share spread over lots of CoTs. Trade agreements lower you trading efficiency; don't make them unless you're absolutely sure you want to. Minimize your spending on stability by: Only taking provinces with your religion. Pagan provinces are especially crippling for Christian nations. Making stability enhancing domestic policy decisions. Converting provinces to your state religion with missionaries. Pagan and state culture provinces are easiest to convert, especially if you have an good monarch.

	09-08-2004 00:45									#8
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The game is equivalent to a university course, really. (Like any good strategy game should be)

	10-08-2004 16:10									#9
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I recommend you to try the 1492 scenario before the 1419 one(GC).

	12-08-2004 12:56									#10
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Well, my copy arrived on Tuesday (benefit of living in a civilised country! ).

Looks very complicated. No manual, but the manual was apparently out of date by v1.00 anyway (now there's a surprise).

So far I have only tried the Fantasia game and am slowly getting the hang of colonising, exploring and economic development. I did pitch in to the GC as England but about 5 million things happened straight away and half my french provinces were lost whilst I was trying to figure out how to kick the Scots. So I went back to the bottom of the learning curve.

Definitely a fun game though.

	13-08-2004 19:12									#11
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV Well, my copy arrived on Tuesday (benefit of living in a civilised country! ). Looks very complicated. No manual, ....

Try here:

Chema_Cagi's fan site for EU2.

EU2 FAQ

	14-08-2004 16:16									#12
	Re: What does a n00b need to know about EUII? Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt what should I know about the game prior to playing it? RTFM first (assuming the copy I bought comes with a manual)?

There is a pdf copy of the manual on my CD. Not terribly enlightening though. I read through most of the FAQ's on the Paradox forums which sort of helped (a discussion of the detailed effects of stability, or whatever, changing is a bit hard to understand when you're not clear what changes it in the first place).

The manual includes a keyboard commands list which may be useful. The most important thing to know is that if you click on the clock in the top right corner the game pauses. That may seem odd for a RTS but is a big help right at the start so you can get organised and issue orders and also convenient when you want to go and look at the ledger or check CoT's and diplomatic attitudes without coming back to discover you are losing a war.

The other thing I had difficulty getting to grips with is that you can't simply conquer other countries, unlike Civ. I am playing the GC as Castile. I occupied both provinces of Granada and .... nothing happened. You have to occupy both provinces and take Gibraltar in a peace deal, wait 5 years for the truce to expire then you can take and annex Granada. So it is a conflict for individual provinces. Historically more accurate but requires careful planning. You can only eliminate someone by reducing them to one province first.

An idea of the history of the country you are playing also helps a bit. My next problem with Castile is not knowing whether there is a event which unites Castile and Aragon or whether I have to go and take the Aragonese provinces. I hope for an event!

	17-08-2004 17:37									#13
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Mine arrived today. Haven't done anything except the interface tutorial due to general busy-ness.

I printed the manual out and will be looking it over in the next few days.

Move over Diablo II, I have a new toy!

	17-08-2004 18:58									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

-let the AI handle your trading for now

-when not at war your main concern is revolts, either via events or due to provinces which are not the same culture/religion as your state

-stability is the name of the game. The bigger you are, the more it costs to improve stability. Stability affects income, revolt risk, moral, and a bunch of other stuff

-get then hang of hovering your mouse over descriptions to get more information. If your province has say 3% revolt risk, hover your mouse and find out why. Your markets not making enough profit? Same thing.

-check your edger often to get a big picture of everything that's going on in your kingdom and in others

	18-08-2004 20:02									#15
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Its a fun game MWIA, let us know how your experiment turns out

	19-08-2004 14:52									#16
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I am truly impressed by this game. After a couple of tries at the first hundred years as Castile I wanted to try something different so picked Muscowy. Within a year everyone around invaded (this is on very easy/weakling!). So I tried again.

Denmark/Sweden promptly started dismembering Novgorod and Sezbun got into a war with the Golden Horde. I invaded and force annexed Ryz??? and was in turn attacked by Tver and Pskov. I conquered and force annexed both. Went to war against the Golden Horde to take the pressure off Sezbun and got a province from the peace deal just as the Teutonic Order and then Denmark/Sweden invaded. Fought them both off with difficulty. I was winning but running out of troops. Attrition on winter campaigns is devastating.

I have increased Muscowy from 3 provinces to 7 (enough to form Russia when the time comes) but have a bad rep and everyone around is not happy with me. Great fun! Time for a quiet few years of economic development whilst my reputation mends.

I'd seriously recommend EU2, even above Civ.

	19-08-2004 22:22									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

From a newbie relative:

First, do begin in a low setting- its better I think to get the hang of game mechanics before you think you can go on ahead.

Watch your bank account and how you spend:

You have income from 3 sources- trade income, population taxes, goods production each month. At the beginning of each year you also get a census tax, a pot of money that depends on how big and rich you are. You have to balance your books monthly. You can;t deficit spend, but you can borrow money in the form of 5 year loans. You do have to pay interest, so the more loans you have and the longer they last the more you have to pay each month to finance them. If you are spend thrift then you have to finance yourself by printing money, but this increase inflation dramatically, making improvements much more expensive.

Top priority should be to build a tax collector in each province- this increases the possibility of revolt, BUT the increase in revenue is much more important.

I say don;t let the Ai control trading, cause sending merchnts cost money, and the AI will simply send them off, whether it is worth it or not, cutting into your treasury.

Manipulate your social engineering scales (you can only move one step in any field one spot every decade) to get more of what you want- colonists, or better science and income rates, whatever.

I would recommend starting as some non-European country in Asia- Europe is horribly competative and as I said, better to learn the game before you move on. I found Malacca to be good.

	20-08-2004 00:05									#18
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i was totally amazed too when i first started to play eu2. it's a couple steps above civ on my scale of greatness. it's really a shame that it probably has only sold a fraction of civ3's total sales given how much better it is imo.

	22-08-2004 16:36									#19
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Well I've played for a bit on the Fantasia scenario as China in order to get the hang of it, and also as Russia in the Napoleon scenario.

Thus I have some queries...

Firstly, should one colonise wherever one can? I have been colonising the territories where it tells me the base tax rate will be the highest (15 or so in China). Is this good? Is there any point to a colony with less than a population of 700, seeing as no taxes come before that many? Is there a point in making trading posts larger than size 1? How do you tell if a trading post is making any money at all? How do you get gold mines? I have built a trading post on a territory with gold, but apparently none yet.

Is attrition really that bad always for ships? Soldiers can explore quite a way before needing reinforcements, but ships seem to crap out quickly on expeditionary voyages. Is getting a nation to hand over a territory to you the only way to properly assimilate the nation? Can you destroy nations, and if so, how? I have at one point occupied all of the remaining parts of Poland, and then could demand all provinces except their Centre of Trade (makes sense), but nothing I did seemed to mean I could wipe them out completely....

How great is infrastructure before advancing in tech? Should I build lots of manufactories to develop what I have over building armies, or vice versa? I have seen that getting a tax collector everywhere is a good thing to do in general - how much difference does that make? Does the amount of a particular good you have in your territories matter? Is there some way to increase trade with other nations if you have a high-priced good in one or more of your territories? Are improved defenses only really necessary in areas with heavy military competition?

That's all I can think of for the moment. Doubtless I will be back with more.

So far I wasn't too keen on the game, but it's growing on me bit by bit as I understand it. If I had a full-on manual I'd be enjoying it all the way through by now!

Firstly, should it really be taking me that long to get to the next technology level? I

	23-08-2004 14:58									#20
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Well, I'm only a few days ahead of you on this (if that) but from what I've found so far...

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Firstly, should one colonise wherever one can? I have been colonising the territories where it tells me the base tax rate will be the highest (15 or so in China). Is this good? Is there any point to a colony with less than a population of 700, seeing as no taxes come before that many? Is there a point in making trading posts larger than size 1? How do you tell if a trading post is making any money at all? How do you get gold mines? I have built a trading post on a territory with gold, but apparently none yet.

I don't think there is much point in expanding trading posts beyond level one. The uses I have found are firstly to put down a claim to stop anyone else grabbing that bit of territory and secondly that it is often easier to start a TP than a colony and the TP increases the chances for a colonist subsequently.

quote: Is attrition really that bad always for ships? Soldiers can explore quite a way before needing reinforcements, but ships seem to crap out quickly on expeditionary voyages.

Yes, until you get an explorer. They can go a lot further but still need a harbour so it is best on a long voyage to secure military access to someone else's territory or set up a colony ASAP.

quote: Is getting a nation to hand over a territory to you the only way to properly assimilate the nation? Can you destroy nations, and if so, how? I have at one point occupied all of the remaining parts of Poland, and then could demand all provinces except their Centre of Trade (makes sense), but nothing I did seemed to mean I could wipe them out completely....

You can take all but the capital province it seems. Once they are reduced to a one province state you can either force them to become your vassals and subsequently go for a diplomatic annexation (expensive) or wait until the truce expires and attack again and force annex them (bad for your reputation).

quote: Should it really be taking me that long to get to the next technology level?

The perceived wisdom seems to be to concentrate research on trade and infrastructure early then the military techs later. My experience so far suggests a good monarch and keeping your stability up are very important. I am playing Muscowy in the GC and have reached 1516 but am only at land 3 and naval 2. I would probably be a bit further on if I had not trashed my reputation very early with 3 forced annexations and then had a bad run of political crisis events.

	23-08-2004 18:21									#21
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt I have seen that getting a tax collector everywhere is a good thing to do in general - how much difference does that make? Are improved defenses only really necessary in areas with heavy military competition?

Without a tax collector you only get the day to day taxes from a province. Once you have a tax collector in place you get a yearly payment on 1 January which can be quite a boost to your coffers. At the moment I tend to run a very small monthly deficit on the budget sliders during the year and rely on the yearly income for manufacturies, additional troops and promoting officials.

(edit: go into the ledger and the economy section. Find the table that lists income. The top one, census taxes, is what your tax collectors generate. The rest is your other income. I am currently getting about 25% of my total income from tax collectors)

I've not got beyond level 2 fortresses yet. They seem to be worth having on islands (saves maintaining troops there) and key provinces. Useful for Russia when dealing with revolts due to the assistance of General Winter so I have some kind of fortress in all my provinces in my current game. 20k rebels in September turns into 10k rebels in March after a winter siege and can then be crushed.

	24-08-2004 15:41									#22
	Remove this text

might not want to read this if you like figuring stuff out on your own because i am sure you will figure this stuff out eventually(i did). it might kill the game a little for you to know all this stuff so soon.

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Firstly, should one colonise wherever one can?

yes, but in single player you have a decisive advantage as the ai is very slow to colonize(at times slower than real life). colonizing is a long term investment so it's best to start early.

quote: I have been colonising the territories where it tells me the base tax rate will be the highest (15 or so in China). Is this good?

yes, do the best provinces first as they make lots more money than the bad ones.

quote: Is there any point to a colony with less than a population of 700, seeing as no taxes come before that many?

nope, and having lots of colonies under 1000 is bad. the more of those you have the worse your colonization percentage for succeding when you send more settlers. you usually only want 1 colony at a time under 1000 and the rest trade posts.

quote: Is there a point in making trading posts larger than size 1?

yes, just like colonies trade posts at 1 have negatives to colonization success. you want to get them up to at least 3, and ideally 6(here they make fairly good money in centers or trade aka cots). i'd also add trading posts are good in single player but worthless in multiplayer because humans will burn them to the ground. generally when i play a colonizing nation i concentrate on one colony and build trading posts up to 6 everywhere else. i do this because usually you don't have enough money to send all your colonists as colonies because they cost so much and with high number colonizing nations you get 5+ colonists a year(iirc the max is 7 or 8). so you have more than enough to make lots of tps and they do make decent money.

quote: How do you tell if a trading post is making any money at all?

they all make money. mostly trading posts are good for claiming mass territory and if you are a very good trading nation(netherlands, or sweden for example) you will make money off trading posts faster than colonies(especially if you have a center of trade all to yourself where all the trading posts belong to which you can monopolize). colonies make loads more money in the long run though.

quote: How do you get gold mines? I have built a trading post on a territory with gold, but apparently none yet.

you can only get gold mines by building colonies on them or taking them from other countries.

quote: Is attrition really that bad always for ships?

no. as your tech rate goes up your attrition goes down. eventually at the higher numbers you can even explore without an explorer(i think it's in the 30s). the same is true for soldiers.

quote: Soldiers can explore quite a way before needing reinforcements, but ships seem to crap out quickly on expeditionary voyages.

buy military access from other nations(muslims, pagans, indians, etc) to dock your ships at so you can reset the attrition values to 0.

quote: Is getting a nation to hand over a territory to you the only way to properly assimilate the nation?

no. you can vassilize them or there are also historical events(like austria getting hungry).

quote: Can you destroy nations, and if so, how?

annexing them. you can vassilize then diploannex nations too and this is usually better if you can do it(you get way less badboy points).

quote: How great is infrastructure before advancing in tech?

not sure i understand. the key to the game is getting infra 5 as then you can fight inflation with mayors.

quote: Should I build lots of manufactories to develop what I have over building armies, or vice versa?

manufactories are one of the best investments in the game. you should always build them if you can. the earlier the better as their research advantage is most useful in the beginning.

quote: I have seen that getting a tax collector everywhere is a good thing to do in general - how much difference does that make?

huge difference. you want them everywhere! you get significantly more money(maybe even 2x? i don't remember) at the end of each year. iirc you don't need them if you have 10 on centralization but no nation can keep 10 on that slider for long and even going down to 9 on that slider is a fairly large loss of money.

quote: Does the amount of a particular good you have in your territories matter?

a bit. grain for instance let you support more troops. naval supplies /fish? is the same for boats. you also get victory points iirc for being the biggest producer of each trade good.

quote: Is there some way to increase trade with other nations if you have a high-priced good in one or more of your territories?

not really trade is automatic more or less. some trade goods fluctuate in response to certain things but usually you can't control them all. iirc slaves sky rocket in price once manufactors get built on sugar/tabacco/etc.

quote: Are improved defenses only really necessary in areas with heavy military competition?

in single player yes. you don't even really need forts in single player though as the ai is pretty bad imo(at least once you get the basics down). eu2 does have room for tactics but most wars are decided before they start as economics are so much more important.

quote: Firstly, should it really be taking me that long to get to the next technology level?

it takes quite a while to research techs especially in the beginning of the game. there are also penalties for being ahead of the curve historically but it's very doable to max out on all techs before the game ends(even hundreds of years before it ends).

	24-08-2004 18:01									#23
	Got spare money?

Tried a bit of the Colonising scenario as Spain. I quickly reunited with Granada and those separatist Basques (my first annexes! ) and then set overseas once I noticed that some Explorers/Conquistadors were surreptitiously appearing in a port (sneaky buggers were HIDING from me). I annexed a couple of Indian tribes (Cherokee and Iroqs perhaps?) before crashing for the night. I found that in THAT game my tech was constantly advancing. Perhaps as China advancement is harder...


Another question: how do you get Conquistadors/Explorers? I gather that I got mine by playing as Spain during a time they historically got explorers, so a random event. How can I get them if not through random luck or through scripted game events tied to the particular nation you are?

	24-08-2004 22:22									#24
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Advancements are NOT uniform:

1. There are cultural difference: European states research faster than non-Europeans. Protestans research fastest, followed by Catholics, eastern Orthodox, Muslim states and then others like China and Indian states. Native American states barely advance.

2. Having neighbors matters- if hold the point on the nob on any of the sliders you see where the budget is coming from-European and smome Muslim states get a "neighbor bonus", China does NOT.

3. How centralized and innovative your state is has a huge effect on how fast you move.

4. The bigger you are, the more techs cost, so simply being bigger does not make it easier to research.

	24-08-2004 22:28									#25
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Another question: how do you get Conquistadors/Explorers? I gather that I got mine by playing as Spain during a time they historically got explorers, so a random event. How can I get them if not through random luck or through scripted game events tied to the particular nation you are?

Sadly, those are the only ways. Being more "naval" minded I think increases the number of chances you get to have random explorers and get boosts of colonists. Ohter proclavities in the social scales affect what random events you get.

At a very late point in the tech tree any army and any fleet can explore.

	26-08-2004 07:18									#26
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

china researches very quickly imo. i usually would pass the europeans in a hundred years or two(don't remember). china is one of the easiest countries to play barring their civil war.

quote: 4. The bigger you are, the more techs cost, so simply being bigger does not make it easier to research.

i find being bigger makes your economy large enough to overcome any penalties for size.

	26-08-2004 13:21									#27
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quote: Originally posted by pg i find being bigger makes your economy large enough to overcome any penalties for size.

That's just partly right. If you have many colonies or poor provinces, they still give you the same penalty as your richer provinces. So you need lots of rich provinces to overcome the penalty(and manufactories, which costs a lot, but also contribute a lot).

	26-08-2004 19:46									#28
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quote: Originally posted by pg china researches very quickly imo. i usually would pass the europeans in a hundred years or two(don't remember). china is one of the easiest countries to play barring their civil war.

As China I also surpassed the west-but by opening up to outside trade, not by closing yourself off.

	26-08-2004 21:41									#29
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it really brings back nostalgic memories to me when I read this thread and relive my own newbie'ism from 2001...

	27-08-2004 19:55									#30
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Then please, by all means, throw out some words of wisdom when and where you can!

I haven't had time to play in the last few days, but I keep visiting here to keep abreast of the latest tidbits. I have visited the Paradox forums, and wow...there's just too much info to assimilate easily in all thos zillions of FAQs. I think I'll just play when I can, ask questions here, and occasionally get some tips here.