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Natalinasmpf
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Hmm, thought of a new one, sort of like a cross between Gaia and Sparta:
The Planetary Nomads
Agenda: Cohesion of environment and a non-decadent lifestyle
+1 Planet - Environmental Cohesion
-1 Industry - Nomadic, wary of overproduction
+1 morale - survivalist tendencies
+1 effic - Recycling measures and clean lifestyle
50% Psi bonus - excellent guerilla fighters
May not use free market economics (free reigning economic forces held in disdain)
Free ability "cloaking device" with all units with discovery of Frictionless Surfaces (excellent guerilla tactics)
Needs complex for bases to exceed size 5 (Over-urbanisation discouraged)
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Quezacotl06
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It looks like a fair faction to me. But I'm not sure how a nomadic, free-spirited people would hate free enterprise.
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Quezacotl06
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actualy, wait, no. 50% PSI Combat bonus is too much. I'd replace it with a free rover (they're an exploration faction, right?)
Last edited by Quezacotl06 on 19-08-2004 at 12:53
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Quezacotl06
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Another balenced faction:
Colonialists of Planet
+2 Efficiency (Decentralized municipal and regional management)
+1 Growth ("Smart City" planning)
-1 Industry (Land space reserved mostly for residential zoning)
-1 Planet (Local ecology suffers from rapid expansion)
+50% votes
Impunity Green
Cannot use Police State
Prefer Democracy
Focus nothing
The rationale is basicaly that they rely on expansion and pop-booming to offset the industry penalty and go green (limiting their growth somewhat) in favor of curbing the increased pollution.
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Natalinasmpf
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quote:
But I'm not sure how a nomadic, free-spirited people would hate free enterprise. |
They don't want enterprise. They want ad hoc economic systems, or an efficient one....
quote:
The rationale is basicaly that they rely on expansion and pop-booming to offset the industry penalty and go green (limiting their growth somewhat) in favor of curbing the increased pollution. |
I hope you know factions are created based on ideology, not with SE strategy in mind. 
A proper, fierce agenda would be nice. Tad too much for some of the options: I think remove +50% votes, because they aren't especially intellectuals like Lal, or anything, and their pop growth would more than make up for it.
An agenda for the children and its welfare, for example. Everything centralised upon bringing up children correctly, because they are the wave of the future.
Reduce effic to +1, remove -1 Planet, increase industry penalty (higher infrastructure costs in budget), receive free children's creche at every base. Or something liike that.
quote:
Do you use worms or troops, |
Psi troops. ;-)
Actually they are meant to proliferate in the wild. They are adept at mindworm hunting, ingrained into their culture. My inspiration was the Bushmen of Africa, native Americans, etc.
quote:
actualy, wait, no. 50% PSI Combat bonus is too much. I'd replace it with a free rover (they're an exploration faction, right?) |
Sort of. The PSI bonus is there for the tactical ability.
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livid imp
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Gimme a quarter or I'll touch you
Mar 2004
time: 21:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Quezacotl06
Me private rating sytem for Syndicate Mafia: 12/20. |
Try like a 18/20. Upon playtesting I have found them to be excessively strong. I am currenty making revisions to tone them down.
quote:
Originally posted by Quezacotl06
Utopia
+1 Growth/Economy/Industry (Good working conditions and social contract)
-1 Morale/Police/Support (Pacifist, freedom-loving)
25% Attack Penalty (Lack of agression)
1 Talent every 4 citizens (Idealism attracts intellectual elite)
Agenda-Eudaimonia
Shun-Power
Focus-Growth
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Whoa speaking of excessively strong 21/20. After getting a creche and do the SE Demo/Planned/Wealth you would have:
+2 Econ
+3 Industry
+7 Growth
+3 Morale when in base
-1 Police (more than offset by extra Talents)
-3 Support (Exp Morgan players are used to dealing with this: Clean reactors and Crawlers)
25% Attack penalty (you wouldn't be attacking anyway)
4:1 Extra talents
What you have here is a combo of the best of Morgan, Drones, Yang, and Lal with only Morgan's penalties. That is Utopia all right....maybe you can use it to handicap a newbie in a multi-player game.
Next....
quote:
Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
The Planetary Nomads
Agenda: Cohesion of environment and a non-decadent lifestyle
+1 Planet - Environmental Cohesion
-1 Industry - Nomadic, wary of overproduction
+1 morale - survivalist tendencies
+1 effic - Recycling measures and clean lifestyle
50% Psi bonus - excellent guerilla fighters
May not use free market economics (free reigning economic forces held in disdain)
Free ability "cloaking device" with all units with discovery of Frictionless Surfaces (excellent guerilla tactics)
Needs complex for bases to exceed size 5 (Over-urbanisation discouraged) |
First and biggest problem, by definition nomands don't build cities.  But if we pretend, we can get past that point to my next point. Which is te -1 industry should be more like -3 to -5 for a group of people have no permenant home. I mean do they have a fold-up iron smelting factory that they put on there oxen's back?
The +1 planet/eff/morale all make sense.
50% Psi bonus with a +1 planet? Why? Once you go Green you will have a 130% Psi bonus when attacking. 250% once you get the DT/NA and Cybernetics. Imagine a Demon Boil at +250% (or +200% defending) That is the realm of Cult of Planet, not nomads. A +2 Planet and no Psi bonus would make more sense.
I love  the idea for free cloaking representing guerilla tactics. Unfortunately, it will come too late in the game to mean anything.
The hab complex is right on, but I think the number should be lower.
quote:
Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
Colonialists of Planet
+2 Efficiency (Decentralized municipal and regional management)
+1 Growth ("Smart City" planning)
-1 Industry (Land space reserved mostly for residential zoning)
-1 Planet (Local ecology suffers from rapid expansion)
+50% votes
Impunity Green
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Only two problems here. First this is clearly a growth based faction. That growth would naturally negate the effects of Green SE. Saying that you are immune to the growth penalty to Green because of your great growth would also logically negate the benefits of Green SE. You even back this up with the -1 Planet declaring them as a Planet unfriendly faction. If anything you should have a preference for Planned or Demo for the Growth (this faction is clearly a Planned faction btw) and be adverse to Green.
Two, the +50% votes on a growth factioncould get out of control fast. I would do some serious playtesting with that one. The raw numbers of citizens should be enough you don't need to add in the +50% votes.
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Natalinasmpf
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quote:
First and biggest problem, by definition nomands don't build cities. But if we pretend, we can get past that point to my next point. Which is te -1 industry should be more like -3 to -5 for a group of people have no permenant home. I mean do they have a fold-up iron smelting factory that they put on there oxen's back? |
'
It is a semi-nomadic lifestyle. Nomads do have favourite grounds they sort of settle, it is like camps they establish.
The 50% Psi bonus is meant there for a good reason, I guess. I may lower it to 33%. It is the main strong point I offered, meant to make up the early part of not having free cloaking. I may make it a -2 Industry and make hab complex requirements 4.
Or permit me to add in a -1 growth and raise effic and morale to +2?
+2 Effic
+2 morale
-2 Industry
-1 growth
+1 Planet
+50% Psi Bonus*
Free cloaking ability with discovery of Frictionless Surfaces
Hab Complex Limits Raised by 3 (Meaning cannot exceed 4 and 11 without hab complexes and domes respectively)*
TECH: Doctrine: Mobility
Amazingly, I can still add one more feature. (Asterisked features can be added infinitely without breaking 8 ability limit, I think)
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Natalinasmpf
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[/q]Instead....Add Free Tech: Frictionless Surfaces. This should give them cloaking from day one. AFAIK there are no other changes the tech would have, so it shouldn't break the game. Just keep in mind that the tech could be stolen which could cause problems.[/q]
The problem it can be given to allies. *shudder*
The enemy will get hold of it, then what about people with Planetary Datalinks and Roze? Oh my.
They should include the ability to have an ability (pun unintended) given from day one, since they have free facilities like that, too.
quote:
Think about it, look at you faction but make the +1 Planet a +6 Planet |
But not the benefits of increased lifeform capture rate, reduced impact of ecological damage, etc.
I intend to severely penalise this through the -2 Industry or -3 Industry. And the Cult has half/third the industry problem, less of a housing problem, and is good at maintaining police fanatic control. Bear in mind the PSI bonus is now 33%. And the Cult can pop boom. Yay.
I think I'll toss in a penalty for wealth as well.
+2 morale
+2 effic
+1 Planet
-2 Industry
-1 growth
+33% Psi Bonus
Free ability cloaking device upon discovery of frictionless surfaces
Penalty: Wealth
Tech: Doctrine: Mobility
Hab Complex Problem equivalent of Morgan's
Aversion to Free Market
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livid imp
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Gimme a quarter or I'll touch you
Mar 2004
time: 21:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
The problem it can be given to allies. *shudder*
The enemy will get hold of it, then what about people with Planetary Datalinks and Roze? Oh my. |
Well since this is basically a "house rules" faction, you could agree that the tech is not to be traded. Even if some one gets the tech, they wouldn't get the ability for free. The AI never uses cloaking. There is no easy answer there, i was just tossing out ideas.
quote:
Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
They should include the ability to have an ability (pun unintended) given from day one, since they have free facilities like that, too. |
Yes, there should....come on SMAC2!
quote:
Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
But not the benefits of increased lifeform capture rate, reduced impact of ecological damage, etc. |
True, but still an equivent in combat.
quote:
Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
I intend to severely penalise this through the -2 Industry or -3 Industry. |
-2 should do it. Anymore, while logical, would be crippling on a game balance level.
quote:
Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
Bear in mind the PSI bonus is now 33%. |
This seems more moderated.
quote:
Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
+2 morale
+2 effic
+1 Planet
-2 Industry
-1 growth
+33% Psi Bonus
Free ability cloaking device upon discovery of frictionless surfaces
Penalty: Wealth
Tech: Doctrine: Mobility
Hab Complex Problem equivalent of Morgan's
Aversion to Free Market |
This looks more balanced. Playtest it for yourself, then get others to after you revaluate it. Btw, I think aversion to wealth makes more sense than FM.
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H.Humpel
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Ottawa, ON
Aug 2004
time: 00:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Natalinasmpf
Hmm, thought of a new one, sort of like a cross between Gaia and Sparta:
The Planetary Nomads
Agenda: Cohesion of environment and a non-decadent lifestyle
+1 Planet - Environmental Cohesion
-1 Industry - Nomadic, wary of overproduction
+1 morale - survivalist tendencies
+1 effic - Recycling measures and clean lifestyle
50% Psi bonus - excellent guerilla fighters
May not use free market economics (free reigning economic forces held in disdain)
Free ability "cloaking device" with all units with discovery of Frictionless Surfaces (excellent guerilla tactics)
Needs complex for bases to exceed size 5 (Over-urbanisation discouraged) |
There is a Nomade faction out there (even if it is in french):
http://home.nordnet.fr/~rpirez/smac...es_factions.htm
see "Nomades"
-----
#NOMADES
NOMADES DE CHIRON, l'Explorateur, Nomades, M, 2, Ilmar, M, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1,
TECH, DocFlex, SOCIAL, +PLANET, SOCIAL, ++EFFIC, SOCIAL, -POLICE, SOCIAL, -PROBE, DRONE, 4, POPULATION, 2, FANATIC, 0
ECONOMIE, VERTE, EFFICACITE
ECONOMIE, PLANIFIEE, nil
...
#DATALINKS2
^+1 en Planète: {expérience de survie en milieux hostiles}
^+2 en Efficacité: {communication longues distances très performante}
^-1 en Police: {soif de liberté}
^-1 en Repérage: {structure éparpillée de la société}
^+25% en attaque: {technique guerilla: connaissance du terrain et camouflage}
^complexes d'habitation nécessaire au-delà de 5 habitants: {vie de nomades}
^un droïde supplémentaire tous les 4 citoyens: {appel du voyage}
-----
Never played them, just an info. It even comes with all 3 pcx-files.
Greetings, H.Humpel
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Natalinasmpf
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I think the fanatic attack is way out of point....
I prefer the PSI attack bonus! And the free cloaking device!
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binTravkin
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Lord of Progress of the Council of Lords of Gaia
Jan 2004
time: 07:33
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Well, imagine people start using gene theraphy for growing HUGE muscles for themselves (a.k.a. Genejack factory) and all the other stuff which is needed for particular proffession - e.g. programmers - big brain, women (profession - birthgivers.. ) - big titties, womb & so on
&imagine those genetic malcontents make it to Chiron:
The Genetic Malcontents:
AGENDA: To rebuild the knowledge of gene-jacking
Free Genejack factory(they've already been gene-jacked before)
-POLICE (hard to make them all satisfied - theyre almost different species)
-ECONOMY(again, the different needs disrupt trade)
-COMMERCE (others dislike them)
-PROBE (it's easy to find a dissident between em)
Starting tech: none (they've lost all in Planetfall)
IMMUNITY, Knowledge (they strive to get back to tech of gene-jacking)
SE pro: Knowledge, INDUSTRY
SE con: Cybernetic, (they believe they'll do it themselves! ), nil
Well, maybe some other prefs, but I can't think about one..
I think this one is fairly balanced, even weak, if you forget to make some police units or other psych!
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Natalinasmpf
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quote:
. Even if some one gets the tech, they wouldn't get the ability for free. The AI never uses cloaking. |
The AI has this nifty ability of mind controlling one of your units (or if you give it away), then immediately copying its design. Heck, its not standard to build soporific dissassociative PSI choppers, I didn't even give it anything save for Centauri Psi, and it started building them(!). It looves to copy.
quote:
Btw, I think aversion to wealth makes more sense than FM. |
I wanted to do it the other way round, penalty to free market and aversion to wealth, before realising that free market already hits rock bottom in the SE table.
Or maybe the -6 Planet will be a killer, I have no idea. Hmm...good point. -6 Planet will give -60%, negating much of the nomads' strong points, won't it? It could depend...the nomads still have +1 Planet (10%) and 33%....making it about -17% instead in total. Hmm.
Very well. Aversion to wealth and penalty to free market it is, then. It would also render police state and thought control to merely offset free market's negative police rating useless, wouldn't it? (In the terms of choosing for such, besides the support, probe and morale changes).
I'm also thinking of something; in conventional combat, they have a defensive bonus, but sacrificing offensive due to their guerilla nature. However, in PSI attack, this will be negated quite. 90% attack, 115% defense? Then PSI would be 23%, thereabout...
The problem is it would violate the 8 limit thing....(not counting hab complex limits and the psi bonus, they are excluded)...bah! Someone suggest what I should put in and what I should put out. Guess the combat 90/115 modifiers are less of a priority....
I've also made its agenda a Green Democracy, so it won't kill itself with selecting Green and nothing to offset the near-zero population growth. I've made it choose democracy, and its interests Green. I believe that is more important, well, because it tends to choose fundamentalist in war time, and this will kill it should it choose Green Fundamentalist! This is just the AI though...guess I'll concoct a story about its culture, and how its democratic and all.
Last edited by Natalinasmpf on 31-08-2004 at 20:31
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Natalinasmpf
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By the way, one more question: how do I add a faction to the drop down list, rather than replacing an existing faction?
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livid imp
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Gimme a quarter or I'll touch you
Mar 2004
time: 21:33
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quote:
Originally posted by binTravkin
Well, imagine people start using gene theraphy for growing HUGE muscles for themselves (a.k.a. Genejack factory) and all the other stuff which is needed for particular proffession - e.g. programmers - big brain, women (profession - birthgivers.. ) - big titties, womb & so on |
Maybe have the back story be that the GeneJacks broke off from one of the less ethical factions (Morgan, Zach, Yang) and now consider themselves "Homo Superior" bent on conquering there old masters, if not all of Chiron. You might even want to flag them as a alien race due to their deep genetic differences from humans. And I would change the name of your faction. In theory, all factions would see themselves as having the right way of life. Why would anyone name themselves "Genetic Malcontents"? Think more along the lines of how the break away drones call themselves "The Free Drones". Think like "GeneJack Liberation Army" or something of the sort.
quote:
Originally posted by binTravkin
-ECONOMY(again, the different needs disrupt trade) |
Actually, economics 101....differing needs would increase trade, not reduce it. Though it might reduce efficiency due to redundant facilities. Maybe a -1 or 2 to Efficiency instead?
quote:
Originally posted by binTravkin
IMMUNITY, Knowledge (they strive to get back to tech of gene-jacking) |
A strong focus to relearn genejacking wouldn't decrease the openness which leads to the probe penalty in the Knowledge SE. By all descriptions, this would be an extremely fragmented society which would justify a low probe rating, not cover one up. If anyone should get Imm. Knowledge, it should be the Angels or the CyCon.
IMO, such a faction would get a Imm. to Power given their genejack status would be able to cover the extra industry needed. Or maybe Imm. Planned for the same basic reasons used for Yang. Or perhaps best of all, Imm. to Fundy! By your description they are obsessed with relearning genejacking (justification for ignoring the -2 Research), the +2 probe would negate the -2 probe under knowledge, plus the +1 morale representing the commitment to conquer their former masters.
It also seems to me that they would not only be adverse to Cybernetic, but also to Thought Control or Police State given their enslavement.
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ShadowKat
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quote:
Even if some one gets the tech, they wouldn't get the ability for free. The AI never uses cloaking. |
I'm not sure that would stand if you give it to them for free - look at the Pirates. They get the Marine Attatchment ability for free, which means all their ships automatically come with it. I think you can drop it; but unless they need the extra ability, I don't think the AI is silly enough not to include it. In fact, iirc, it doesn't even use a slot; I'm not sure on that tho.
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Natalinasmpf
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Update:
I did some playtesting, and it works out quite well. So far, I'm having great deals of trouble completing my first secret project than usual, about thirty years (I usually complete them in 15-20 turns or so), but I might actually complete it after thirty years.
Works quite well indeed. The nomadic/semi-nomadic lifestyle of -2 industry and -1 growth forces bases to be small and spread out, but this creates a large territorial area (and the lifestyle also encourages this with its +2 effic). Spread out and wide, not many urbanised areas, (in fact, as of now, none, save for terraforming) with plenty of native life units and military forces ready to ambush and sweep to victory guarding the territory.
The PSI is a huge bonus, I think. One on my mind worms can kill three...I'm sort of rich now. And mind worms pop up every turn, about three...wanted (most of the time) and sometimes unwanted.
Also the large amounts of forces I have quickly sweeping over the fungus outside my territory is even greater. My nomadic military influence is large, like Ghengis Khan's!
Anyway, I have yet to create a proper portrait or looks for the bases and such, but I will in due time. I'm also creating some funny background story about the leader's rich native American ancestry, and his extreme pride of it. And how he studied major military tactics (from Mao and Tzu to Napoleon?) that later become instrumental in the outflanking and decimating of a major regiment (what was the side Svens was on? I wish to have the regiment loyalty be that of such) earning great repute to be established on the Unity mission.
I'll post some screenies later.
How glorious, your elite companion cavalry, er, I mean, winged hussars, or, cavalry archers....rather elite empath rovers running about smashing mind worms...or being escorted by mindworms themselves. And of course, ruthlessly crushing intruders.
Last edited by Natalinasmpf on 01-09-2004 at 17:26
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Natalinasmpf
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Hmm, either its the map, or there's a reason why I harvested over about 5000 EC's from mindworms by 2200, allowing me to complete 4 secret projects when three of them would have been grabbed up by the AI otherwise....
I think its the map, though...I was on a super rich, super continent, full of superfungus.
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H.Humpel
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Ottawa, ON
Aug 2004
time: 00:33
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quote:
Originally posted by livid imp
Looks an awful lot like the Gaians to me. |
Yes.... they have pretty much in common. They are a bit like "upgraded Gaians".
But I never played them, so I can't tell you if they feel like "upgraded Gaians" when played.
Greetings, H.Humpel
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H.Humpel
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Ottawa, ON
Aug 2004
time: 00:33
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quote:
Originally posted by livid imp
And the Gaians need no upgrading. They are a damn fine faction. |
Yes, you are so right. I love playing them (Gaians), too (if I have to choose from the standard factions).
Well, at least the creators of the Nomades faction made their own PCX files and didn't copy the Gaian ones. But I'll still prefer playing the Gaians (or the CCF).
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19-08-2004 01:19
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